To wonder if rudeness/lack of basic manners is now a middle/upper class norm?

[Rumineverything]

Hi,

So firstly, I understand that anyone from anywhere can be rude and actually I don't like grouping people into a catagory. ..However, a good friend of mine has fairly recently moved to a very posh, Conservative, middle class area and I've noticed she has become more abrupt and to me, just rude over the past couple of years. Her dc are lovely and I'm very close to them, but they're also now quite rude and dare I say, entitled. Not intentionally so, but hardly any please and thank yous, lots of "I want"s instead of "can I have?". Thing is, all the families I've interacted with in this area are all the same. It's just the norm, but I find it really irritating. There's always this cold sense of smugness and self satisfaction around.

I'm finding my irritation harder to hide in my face recently. I can feel it. I still love my friend and I know deep down she is the same person really, but on the surface she seems to have changed so much, so quickly.

Does anyone understand where I'm coming from?

I think generally in the UK manners have declined and entitlement has increased, but across all classes, not just middle/upper.

I understand what you mean ; the ' nicer ' an area is ( or perceived to be ) the people seem more entitled and a bit stuck up.
Look down on people.
It is weird and rude and manners do not cost anything , so no reason for it at all! I hate it too

I think there’s been a general decline in manners across the board, driven by an increased sense of entitlement. When a lot of people are challenged or encounter a problem, their default setting seems to be hyper-aggression or utterly self-absorbed sense of outrage.

This is, of course, a generalisation but when you do meet people who conduct themselves politely and reasonably, even when having to be firm or address difficult issues, they seem the exception not the rule.

I fully agree with @Antarcticant i worked in hospitality for years and after Covid I had my fill. I’ve honestly never been so damaged by the way people have spoken to me. Rude, entitled and self important assholes who look down on everyone!

I Don't think it has anything to do with class, some people are just arseholes with no manners. I know people from all walks of life this applies to, same vice versa with polite people.

My dd teaches adults and children to ride in a middle class/second home seaside town and from what she has experienced it is mostly the middle classes who are rude and demanding, one wealthy local business owner rang my dd at 22.10 last Saturday night to book lessons for her little darlings. Plenty turn up late, cancel within the hour of a lesson, turn up late to pick up their kids, expect little Polly to be galloping along the beach on her first lesson.
Dd says the less well off families/kids are generally better behaved and listen to instructions.

I find many children at my children’s prep school completely obnoxious

They don’t get told off properly
They’re spoiled materially
They do seem quite entitled.

Mine are not like that at all. Because I parent them.

They're idiots. The saying money can't buy you class is absolutely true. The real Toffs have incredibly good manners.
I'd start pulling them up every time they're rude TBH. Do you really want people like that as your friends going forward, I know I wouldn't! But I'm post menopausal now and CBA to put up with any of that crap.

I've met lovely MC people and horrid MC's same with WC. The only UC person I met was an epic snob but he's just one person.
I think people in general are ruder.. sometimes it's misplaced 'asserting my boundaries, saying it like I mean it, being direct' and sometimes that's just how they are or they don't like something about you so you see that side.
People make assessments very quickly whether you're someone worth their politeness time. If you have nothing to benefit them the mask slips.

I definitely feel like people round me are getting more entitled.

Not their manners actually, still plenty of please and thank yous, but more their behaviour.

Loud parties, last minute cancellations for a better offer, selfish driving and parking, for example. Basically “we’re living our best lives and never mind how that impacts on everyone else” kind of thinking.

I don’t think it’s limited to my area or this crowd though. There’s a thread on MN right now about kids playing loudly in a garden and there’s a lot of responses saying “it’s your garden, you paid for it, do what the hell you like”. (The OP’s kids are being fine in fact but lots of responses seem to have the screw everyone else mentality).

I don't think it's a class thing, just a dickhead thing. I've met plenty of rude WC people.

This is true. All of the genuinely posh, “old money” types I’ve met have been unfailing respectful and polite.

Is it about being prepared to state assertively what you want? I've always 'softened' and been apologetic about asking for things.

A few years on MN, plus menopause, and I seem to have become more plain speaking.

Maybe the area is full of entitled snobs, or maybe there is a more confident, assertive way of presenting themselves that grates because it's not your norm.

I have a business in a very nice area in London, being in London it's also just round the corner from somewhere that's not even half nice. We get a broad mix of customers, as a general rule the blow ins from the not nice area are more polite and the locals are largely entitled wankers. It's not universally true obviously, littered with exceptions on both sides. also no one from the posh part has ever tried to stab me

Yes I encountered this just the other day. An obviously upper class family in my village (we are in a tourist area) walking 3 abreast so that I had to take my two toddlers into the road. No thanks or acknowledgement. Here is more like the sort of place where strangers will stop and have a chat with you about your kids so it was very noticeable!

Conservative? Not conservative. Is that how people vote in that area? In some places they're just as likely to vote LibDem or Green if they're middle well-off class. Maybe even Labour. Lots of luvvies support Labour, in places like Islington. In my area, it's LibDem over Conservative but few Labour - used to be Conservative but that's quite a while ago.

Nothing to do with class. I think the UK has gone downhill when it comes to basic manners and respect for others. It is a widespread problem...

I live in London and I have come across as many rude, entitled people in Waitrose as I have in a in Primark...

I noticed that people outside the capital are much more polite and friendly though.

Having money does not mean you have good manners/education...

I think what counts as good manners changes over time. My great grandma found it bizarre that children/young people called older people by their first name rather than Mrs or Mr X. Apparently when she was young this was the height of rudeness 🤷‍♀️.

I do think we are getting a bit more straight forward as a society (no is a full sentence etc.). I can’t say that I’ve noticed much difference by area though.

I recognize this in a friend in similar circumstances. A sort of blunt, dismissive attitude where she doesn't notice people and read their feelings, it's like her mind is always on something slightly more important than what's currently happening. It's hard to explain but a sort of looking over your head and taking what she wants in any situation, categorizing things as not as important

YABU, Maybe just that family.

In this house, nothing get done without a please or a thank you. I'm a single mum and I do almost everything but I insist DS is polite. It's the least he can do.

And his school would haul him over the coals if he was rude there.

One academic I knew had observed this and was starting to write a paper .
His contention was that this generation was under more pressure to compete. At work so many of us have targets and appraisals. We work longer hours and irregular hours. Meetings, (F2F) are more difficult to get to because of traffic congestion and lack of parking. Children want more 'things' and want to do more activities, riding, paddle-boarding & so on. The list goes on.
We therefore become impatient because we are obstructed from completing our personal targets.
I wonder if he had time to complete it...

If that happens to me, I just stand still and wait for them to walk around me. And then I say thank you. 🤗

I am possibly just old but the Alexa thing really jarrs with me. The whole "alexa music....alexa lights off .....alexa oven on". I know it's a bloody robot, but saying anything without saying please and thank you as part if it really sits badly .As a child nothing ever happened unless you said those words. Maybe modern chidren speak to humans in the same way they speak to alexa.

Agreed, it's worse 'everywhere'. The only place I see less of it is where there are fewer people, so less contact, rather than 'what class'. I now try and avoid interactions as much as possible. I put some of it down to the pandemic and more of it down to social media where people now say things they wouldn't have previously said to others' faces - except now they do it on SM 'and' in real life! Awful.

I remember moving to a more middle class area when I was about 11 for the last year of primary school- this was in 1986. It certainly felt to me that some of my friends or classmates parents had a lot of rules for their kids that I hadn't encountered before. Like having no TV, or not being allowed to watch ITV, or not being allowed to watch Grange Hill - which were absolutely mystifying to me.

I suddenly became aware that perhaps my manners or table manners weren't up to scratch- it was a nightmare at one friends house, I remember her mum always seemed to ask me questions as soon as I'd put food in my mouth. There just seemed to be a lot of things to consider, whereas at old friends houses I'd felt relaxed. Perhaps it was my age as well and becoming more aware of things that don't bother you when you are younger and perhaps more bothered about what people think. But it did to me seem like there were definite class differences.

And I don't think I was ill-mannered or rude, I just think some of these parents were snobby and insecure about their own social standing and looking to find fault with other kids.