Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

I assume that’s with London weighting? 29k IS high for an EO nationally - I’m an HEO on less than that.

I do agree with the rest of your original comment though; the Civil Service is popularly viewed thanks to the media as just Whitehall fat cats à la Sir Humphrey, when the reality is the vast majority are AAs-HEOs out in the provinces trying to keep the justice system, prisons, job centres etc etc etc running under ever tighter squeezes, while being tax payers ourselves.

Higher taxes, cap profits and introduce wage links

I doubt Labour would get you this

Out of interest when you say you don’t care about inflation these strikes are because of inflation running so high - so people do care a lot

If the same thing gets worse people will care about that too

When you say you don’t care about inflation what do you mean by it?

22% is wishful thinking. We’ll get 1% if we’re lucky.

I’m a “junior” doctor - not even that junior, I’m 10 years in and completed all the professional exams in my specialty. My pay is around £40k.

Just googled how much tube drivers get paid and it made me feel sick.

So they give people pay rises.
Costs in the business rise to meet the wage increase.
Prices to the consumer rise to meet the costs in the business that have risen to meet the pay rise.
Inflation goes up.
People ask for a pay rise to meet increased costs of living.

This is what happened in the 1970's. It's basic economics - inflation spiral. I'm not sure why no one in the media has explained this while talking about the cost of living increase/strikes etc.

Is this only in the public sector? So if you had a job on say 20k you'd now be earning only a little more than that with massive increase in living costs?

What this is not fair?!

@MarshaBradyo

Where have I said I don't care about inflation?

I've said telling the general public they should care when lots of them probably don't understand inflation or how it works, when they are already struggling to pay their bills is a big ask. Especially when those at the top aren't struggling. In fact they are getting richer and richer

Telling people on low wages its their fault so they have to suck it up and stay on the low wages is gaslighting at its finest

@TalkSomeSense1

Why do costs in the business have to rise rather than profits reducing?

That's not a good example of a "magic money tree" as the £1billion didn't go to the DUP.

Due to powersharing rules, it was for Northern Ireland and, as the poorest part of the UK, £1billion was a drop in the ocean of the funding required for improvements. The Civil Service distributed and spent the money which can be checked online too.

Covid - now, there's a very good example of a magic money tree! We're going to be paying for that in higher taxes for years to come now.

Taxes will likely be higher still because of various public sector wage increase demands. At the same time, we've all heard how people are struggling with cost of living largely due to Covid global lockdown and the war in Ukraine.

Where will the money come from if taxes aren't increased to pay for it?

Clearly, taxes will increase and people will struggle further. Vicious circle.

My DH is private sector and it’s at least 7yrs since his last pay review.

So the business margins should be reduced and risk the business not meeting its commitments to landlords, utilities, workers, suppliers? That reduction in profit has to happen in EVERY SINGLE business to make it sustainable. Where does the growth and investment in R&D come from?

How does this help reduce inflation?

I don’t know that it is being said in other media, it’s discussed on radio a fair bit but I agree not everyone bothers with that

On the flip side people in private sector not getting rises will just see their lives damaged more after dealing with the same in pandemic

It’s going to be tough and reminds me of high demand for lockdowns without thinking about effects, this is the only impact now

@TalkSomeSense1

We're being told on this thread we have to keep wages low to reduce demand

Surely that applies to all wages and to all profits?

If we can't have wage increases we cant have profit growth

Public sector workers are also tax payers!

The private sector already pay more, that’s the issue. If you are a young person looking at where to invest your time and energy would it be medicine or the tech industry?

Im pretty sure the public sector pays better on average. And that's before you take into consideration direct benefit pensions, which are far, far more valuable than the direct contributor you'll get in the private sector.

Before anyone comes back to tell me that public sector pensions aren't as good as they used to be, sure, but they're still miles ahead of alternatives. Google the two models above if you don't understand this.

The private sector has some well paid jobs, yes, but I don't think people factor in the sheer scale of the public sector.
There simply aren't oodles of massively jobs in the tech sector for anyone who wants them. They're highly competitive. They'll be dependent on that person delivering significant and tangible commercial advantage to the company. They'll won't get pay rises as a matter of course, it will all be heavily performances based.

Of course anyone who wants to should decamp to the private sector, I just don't think they'll find it quite as cushy as they imagine it to be.

You also get more used to redundancy in private sector

It happens at every drop in demand, which has hit rail now

You also get more used to redundancy in private sector

Well quite. My company lost 10% of its employees over covid. For a while, we all took significant pay cuts to try and help it get through. I was down 35% for about 4 months.

If we can't have wage increases we cant have profit growth

Wages and profits are different things.

@TheKeatingFive

Did your company take any furlough from the govt?

I know wages and profits are different. The point remains

We need to increase wages by inflation or more and tax the top 1% to pay for it. The rich/poor divide in the UK is huge and continues to widen.

This extreme distribution of wealth is why so many UK citizens are struggling to pay for food and energy in what is a wealthy country. The richest 1% own 25% of UK wealth.

Did your company take any furlough from the govt?

Yes, but to be clear, my company is headquartered in ROI - the scheme was different there. We weren't entitled to a lot, but we did take some. It wasn't enough to keep jobs as demand fell off a cliff for a few months. We have employees based in NI, I'm not sure if we were able to claim anything for them. There aren't many of them and none of that team were actually furloughed though, so it wouldn't have been hugely impactful.

I know wages and profits are different. The point remains

Well no it doesn't. You can have profits without wage growth.

@TheKeatingFive

The point about not increasing wages to reduce demand and inflation applies to not increasing profits

We need to increase wages by inflation or more and tax the top 1% to pay for it.

Tax them on what? Earnings or assets? The former won't help things much, they can tuck it away. The latter is interesting, but I'm not sure what the argument for limiting it to the top 1% is. Far more than that have substantial assets in things like property.

applies to not increasing profits

But why not?

Profits kept in companies won't lead to inflationary spirals.

@TheKeatingFive

If they're not used for massive wages for those at the top of the company and are literally only used for company development, fair enough.

But we all know that's not the case

Police have effectively had a 20% pay cut since 2010. No wonder some are saying there will be better off quitting and living on benefits now. A lot can't afford to pay into the pension scheme, so they won't benefit from any police pension.

Didn't nurses get a pay rise following the COVID pandemic, which no one else got?