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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

727 replies

stickershock · 20/06/2022 21:20

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

OP posts:
Summerfun54321 · 20/06/2022 23:41

To summarise the whole thread - we’re all fucked.

Topgub · 20/06/2022 23:42

@sst1234

No, I asked you a specific question which you haven't answered.

No, I don't pay into a work place pension.

But I'll rephrase

Tax avoidance for the sole purpose of avoiding tax is as bad as public sector waste

sst1234 · 20/06/2022 23:44

Topgub · 20/06/2022 23:42

@sst1234

No, I asked you a specific question which you haven't answered.

No, I don't pay into a work place pension.

But I'll rephrase

Tax avoidance for the sole purpose of avoiding tax is as bad as public sector waste

Not sure what your question was. It sounds more like an opinion. Like most of what’s been said on this thread, bar a few statistics.

Blueskydreamer7 · 20/06/2022 23:44

HeathKoala · 20/06/2022 23:39

And the civil service get a huge amount of perks!

What perks are these?

Topgub · 20/06/2022 23:45

@sst1234

Yes, my comments are opinions, like yours

So?

TongueTwistr · 20/06/2022 23:54
  1. Are you aware of how Government departments are funded?
  2. Do you know how Government departments spend your money?
  3. Why was fuel significantly cheaper in the past when a barrel of oil was more expensive?
I suspect that most voters cannot answer these questions, few political journalists can and Cabinet ministers are therefore rarely held to account.

A stiff dose of survivable inflation is wonderful for those with high debt, another twenty years of work ahead of them and the likelihood of pay increases. Bad for the thrifty and very hard to live with for those on fixed incomes, but there is a reason why the Boomers have so much property wealth - for many, their debts simply melted away.

I enjoy a modest lifestyle, live in a small house (the only one I own) and pay four figures to the taxman each week, I recognise that I'm fortunate but squeeze me much more and I may well down tools and pay nothing.

If you want serious change, try to persuade those under 25 to actually get off their bums on polling day and vote and politicians (of all hues) might change their priorities.

caringcarer · 20/06/2022 23:57

Everyone wants a big pay rise but you won't be better off because inflation will just spike higher. A 3-5 percent rise all around might help inflation to go down. Much inflation is driven by rising fuel costs so government should tackle that.

Ryah76 · 20/06/2022 23:58

£29,000 is not high for EO & it’s no where near an SEO salary. No we’ve not had a pay rise, I. 2017/2018 the pay was uplifted for grades AA- AO, but not for grades above.

antelopevalley · 21/06/2022 00:00

Why don't MPs set an example and have a pay freeze and undo the last pay rise in March?
They dictate to us, but happily accept pay rises for themselves.

DdraigGoch · 21/06/2022 00:04

If you want serious change, try to persuade those under 25 to actually get off their bums on polling day and vote and politicians (of all hues) might change their priorities.

But who do we vote for when they're practically all the same?

QuidditchThroughtheAges · 21/06/2022 00:06

@Fifi0102 we do strike. We went on strike in 2011 I think

TongueTwistr · 21/06/2022 00:20

DdraigGoch · 21/06/2022 00:04

If you want serious change, try to persuade those under 25 to actually get off their bums on polling day and vote and politicians (of all hues) might change their priorities.

But who do we vote for when they're practically all the same?

Well, Labour are focused on self-harm and Johnson has just closed the door on Labour defining women to anyone's satisfaction (www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10934555/Boris-Johnson-welcomes-FINA-ban-trans-athletes-Lia-Thomas-elite-swimming.html) but the threat of votes for an alternative would bring change. MPs are now claiming more in expenses than they were before the expenses scandal and (even when they're not getting drunk on subsidised booze or watching porn in the chamber) continue to bring the House into disrepute.

fyn · 21/06/2022 00:30

@Topgub I’ve genuinely have not got a clue what you are going on about. I do understand that money motivates people obviously, the whole of the public sector isn’t going to quit. Where would they all go and work?

How do you propose forcing pay cuts to the incomes of the wealthy, who are predominantly employed in the private sector or have inherited wealth. You can’t.

You don’t need to be an economist, the principal is basic economics. Government ministers have even explained this very reasoning daily in the news. By refusing to give in to large wage increases, the government is forcing consumption down because people can’t afford to consume as much.

Topgub · 21/06/2022 06:11

@fyn

The whole of the public sector probably won't quit but a large proportion already have. Lots of them have retired.

The vacancies remain vacant

I've no idea what you're on about if you think we can keep ignoring that fact or that people will listen to the tories on anything but particularly on keeping wages low.

No one believes they want them kept low because of inflation

I'm actually baffled that anyone would think the general public will agree with the idea that we need to keep the majority worse off to benefit the few.

Well, anyone except tories that is

Legrandsophie · 21/06/2022 06:13

fyn · 21/06/2022 00:30

@Topgub I’ve genuinely have not got a clue what you are going on about. I do understand that money motivates people obviously, the whole of the public sector isn’t going to quit. Where would they all go and work?

How do you propose forcing pay cuts to the incomes of the wealthy, who are predominantly employed in the private sector or have inherited wealth. You can’t.

You don’t need to be an economist, the principal is basic economics. Government ministers have even explained this very reasoning daily in the news. By refusing to give in to large wage increases, the government is forcing consumption down because people can’t afford to consume as much.

They can move to all of the thousands of private sector job vacancies that are currently laying unfilled.

There’s pub near me paying £18 an hour for staff so that they can stay open. Much less stressful than teaching.

jgw1 · 21/06/2022 06:19

Hoardasurass · 20/06/2022 21:26

@Topgub the government doesn't have a magic money tree so could you please explain where you expect the money for the double figure % pay rises?

How much did they give to their rich mates during the pandemic?

Topgub · 21/06/2022 06:30

It would also be nice if we could stop pretending the the cost of living is the fault of those at the bottom due to 'demand'

Its not.

Its mostly the fault of those at the top because of greed. Because those earning the most want to keep 'earning' and taking their obscenely high wages and profits

Yet the tories are apparently telling ordinary people who work really hard they're not giving in to 'demands' for high wages (as if even with the rises the wages would be high)

Its not like they're whole purposes isn't to give in to demands from those already on very high wages

Start with them. Higher taxes, cap profits and introduce wage links

starzyy · 21/06/2022 06:33

How do you propose forcing pay cuts to the incomes of the wealthy, who are predominantly employed in the private sector or have inherited wealth. You can’t.

The gov need to stop targeting income & look at wealth so reforming CGT & dividend tax, inheritance tax etc.

Assanctamonioysastheycome · 21/06/2022 06:38

Where are these £18 p/h jobs ? My ukrainian guest is applying for loads and not getting anywhere, she has excellent english, post grad qualifications and customer service experience. Lidl and costa turned her down, several companies promised interviews but never got back to her. Where are all these mythical jobs ?

rongon · 21/06/2022 06:41

From the ONS

Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period;

The idea that it is acceptable for workers to accept almost a 10% fall in living standards is terrible.

the80sweregreat · 21/06/2022 06:47

A lot of retail or hospitality jobs need a ton of experience; it is a bit of a myth there are ' plenty of jobs '. My dh applied for loads end of last year and mostly they either ignored him or he'd have an interview and nobody ever got back to him! He had forty years experience in engineering and a degree , probably'over qualified' for retail. Or too old.
He has one now, but it wasn't as easy as everyone said it would be. A lot of the time is it ' who you know' as well.
Ageism is a thing too.

AutumnIsHere21 · 21/06/2022 06:53

Those saying the government doesn’t have a magic money tree … well, they found one when they decided to foot the bill for furloughing half the country for months. Now it’s time to adequately pay those people we were clapping for on our doorsteps for for months, it appears that the tree has died.

starzyy · 21/06/2022 06:55

I remember that in 2019 the ONS data showed the below

•	The modelled average public sector earnings premium was 7% in 2019.
•	The modelled average public sector earnings premium is the difference between average earnings of public sector and private sector employees after controlling for worker, job and firm characteristics; and there is greater diversity of workers in the private than public sector.
•	The modelled public sector earnings premium was 3 percentage points higher in 2011 than in 2019.
•	At a more granular level, a higher public sector earnings premium existed in 2019 among low-skilled workers.
•	Private sector high-skilled employees in the knowledge-intensive services had higher earnings on average than their counterparts in the public sector.

I always thought that the average worker was better off in the public sector whereas if highly skilled they would be better off in the private sector.

Fizbosshoes · 21/06/2022 06:56

I work in the private sector I've had 1 payrise since 2008.
That doesn't mean I don't think any public sector workers should get a payrise, just as example that not all private sector jobs are getting sustained rises in pay while public sector wages stagnate - a lot of wages have stagnated for years, public and private sector.

starzyy · 21/06/2022 06:59

well, they found one when they decided to foot the bill for furloughing half the country for months. Now it’s time to adequately pay those people we were clapping for on our doorsteps for for months, it appears that the tree has died.

I genuinely don't understand this logic. Were you anti lockdowns? The fact is we went with lockdown & do you think people should not have received furlough? Don't forget people on furlough didn't necessarily receive all their previous salary, still paid taxes & many lost jobs. It's illogical to think you can close down peoples jobs & keep them at home without funding them.
I'm a key worker & worked throughout, personally I was glad for the job security.