Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

Junior doctors work ridiculous hours and can be sued. My sibling is a doctor.

@Topgub if you do want to understand the situation further than going on about the tories (when it’s a world wide problem) this link provides a really good exposition of what is going on - www.economicshelp.org/blog/2006/economics/cost-push-inflation-2/

@fyn

I'll have a look.

But I'll keep going on about the tories becayse they're currently our govt and are making things massively worse

@fyn

Yeah that didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

The answer appears to be anything except impacting highest earners/profits

Fuck that

@fyn Everyone knows there are worldwide problems. But because of our government's poor response, the UK is predicted to have a far deeper recession than other G8 countries.

making things massively worse

It could get worse - a wage spiral, interest rates rocketing, whatever other impacts which will generally hit lower to middle and not top who have options

Did we not agree during the pandemic that public - and private - sector essential workers were vital - and not paid enough? This is the action they need to take to improve that position.

@Topgub the tories aren’t responsible for world wide inflation. They aren’t perfect obviously but they aren’t the reason for it.

The link really well explains what happened in the UK in the 70s and how it could be repeated again. Cost push inflation is temporary, in the 70s it became permanent and lasted for years as a result of powerful unions.

I live in a low income household of public sector workers so we aren’t immune to the rising prices but if it’s managed correctly we know it will just be temporary. If the unions carry on, we’ll be back to the 70s.

I've just had my pay rise for this year. 3%. I'll try not to spend it all at once. 🤔

At this point, as an NHS worker, a 3% rise won’t even cover the rapidly rising cost of fuel for me to get to work for a year.

@fyn

Arent perfect is the understatement of the year.

We're fucked regardless. But the answer isn't to tell those at the bottom to put up and shut up while those at the top keep getting richer

I would be fine with that if higher-paid people had no or very little pay rises. But that is not what is happening.
So lower-paid people are not supposed to have pay rises because of inflation, but higher-paid people are.

There is a staff food bank at the hospital I work at. It's very regularly used.

The trouble is returning to 70s strikes and all that went with the era will really hurt lowest and middle not top

It’s a bad place to be and I always found it hard watching people demand lockdowns that would bring their hardship knowing it wouldn’t the top.

To be blunt, some things that are tolerated in the public sector (going off sick for months with stress etc) would lead to you being quickly terminated in the private sector. Unions are also not really a thing.

Do you know how pay increases have gone over say the last 10 years? If junior doctors have had he same or better increases than nurses then it isn't fair, if nurses have had 20% over the last ten years and junior doctors haven't had anything then it is fair.

I don't know enough about NHS historic pay settlements to judge.

@Anon1717

Are you really advocating sacking people for being ill?

I'm public sector. Pay rises at top of my band with nowhere to move to worked out as the annual incremental increase of about 1 to 2%, which for me after tax and pension and student loan was an extra £50 a month.

How do we get more money so that we don't end up telling public sector workers that they should be grateful to even have a job whilst their much, much better private sector peers deserve pay rises?

Tax the rich. Tax the millionaires till they bleed. Nobody became rich on their own, they use the infrastructure paid for by the country through taxes, or staff who were educated in state schools. The rich exploit the work and investments made by others and hide their wealth in tax havens and loop holes.

Tax them. The rich businessperson works hard? So does everyone. Everyone working does so to put food on their table, a roof over their head and clothes on their back. Not everyone gets the opportunity to become wealthy, but the wealthy use the investments in the country (people and places). So tax them hard.

For too long we have been told that rich people can't be taxed more otherwise they will leave the country. Doubt it. Tax them.

Multi million and billion pound companies? Tax then hard. They use the hard work, the infrastructure investment from employee taxes, but they avoid paying back. Tax them.

This isn't about squeezing money from people who are choosing to hest or eat. This isn't about calling someone greedy who wants an extra £80 a month so they can afford to travel to work. The majority of people can't pay more.

So tax the rich.

If they taxed businesses, like Amazon, Starbucks and lots more, in an appropriate way then that would be a good start.

So tax the rich.

Absolutely, but sadly not going to happen with this shower of a government.

Taxing large corporations would also help.

I'm behind the public sector getting more but it needs to be equal not 22% for JD's and 3% for nurses. 10% across the board would be fair IMO.

A large part of the problem is the amount of money wasted by the government. If they plugged the holes, a decent pay rise wouldn't be an issue. Any additional taxation would then go to improving public services.

But I dream on!

Are you really advocating sacking people for being ill?

The reality for many small businesses is that they can't afford to pay people to be off for long periods. My company certainly can't. So there's SSP if people are long term sick and many would take out insurance to cover this possibility for themselves. But months at full pay simply isn't feasible.

I got a huge 1.5% payrise. Giving me £16.69 a month extra. Public sector. After tax, NI, pension, my hourly take home pay is £8.89.

im at the top of my scale, work 30 hours and plus on flexi. Other colleagues in the same department but doing other work (must be more important than my job dealing with the public purse).

im now looking for a second job so i can top up savings (which i dont have to start iff with).

people think working for local government you’re paid well, were not. Employment is pants here

im astounded that people are demanding 7%! Or am i in the dark?!

We found out they do have a magic money tree for contracts for cronies, and they could use it for wage rises if they gave a shit about ordinary people. Plus they found a magic money forest to pay for the shit show that is Brexit. Brexit has cost £4,250 per household so far. Thanks to all who voted for that shitshow.

There is a "magic money tree", government borrowing, but it's only useful for funding responses to large one-off expenditures. It's of no use for funding routine monthly expenses, like salaries.

The cost of Covid, the 2008 crisis, Brexit and even the war in Ukraine can be funded by borrowing that is paid off over 30 years. Increased spending on salaries needs to come out of increased current income, i.e. tax rises. (Or by cutting regular spending on something else, but I doubt that's a realistic possibility.)

@TheKeatingFive

That's twice you've said it's OK for the private sector to rely on the public sector while implying the public sector is shite in comparison

That's twice you've said it's OK for the private sector to rely on the public sector while implying the public sector is shite in comparison

Erm, what?