Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

Do people honestly think that people who feel undervalued, terribly over worked and who can't afford to pay their bills care about inflation and what millionaire tory mps say about wage restraint?

This sums up working in the NHS currently. It is not a race to the bottom but, as an NHS nurse the future of the service is frightening. I genuinely don't know what the answer is.

@Blinkingbatshit if the privatise they still need people to do the work. Nurses and Drs. currently going to the private sector, it won’t save the government any money! Train drivers have already been placed in private sector, hasn’t stopped them taking industrial action! They’re privatising all the schools anyway, seems to just mean a layer of well paid management, you still need teachers! In fact several private schools have seen strikes over taking them out of the teachers pension scheme.

@Blinkingbatshit not sure what the alternative is, to just keep your mouth shut and be underpaid/be unable to afford the cost of living for the greater good?

People love to complain about civil servants/nhs/police but if they realised what is actually being delivered day to day on a truly understaffed/underesourced/underpaid/under valued workforce I think they would be surprised.

We found out they do have a magic money tree for contracts for cronies, and they could use it for wage rises if they gave a shit about ordinary people.

Well said. This government are corrupt as fuck. Im centre right leaning and I couldn't stomach voting for this lot.

I’ve worked in both public sector and private sector. In public sector the wage rises are pretty small but you are fairly likely to get them. In the private sector for years we got absolutely no increase whatsoever for years and years following the financial crises, with the occasional bonus of there was spare cash. I’m lucky that my career can flit between public and private sector so I can jump to whichever suits me best.

if the public sector wage bill goes up, this is likely to drive inflation still higher. At the same time the government will have less cash to spend on initiatives such as the council tax / utility bill rebates etc. I make no statements about the magic money tree, but would advocate more wealth taxes. Capital gains and dividend taxes ought to match income tax bands. Ensure 2nd homes run as businesses are actually let for 70 days a year. Revisit council tax bandings for homes at the higher end.

@Fairisleflora wish I could like your post

3% is a big pay cut given inflation is 10%.

Just listening to R4. Inflation expected to average 11% this year, PLUS 5-6% next year.

We've got a huge problem.

its Irrelevant who has and hasn’t had a pay rise (and often not easy to compare as benefit in kind and bonuses, performance related pay is more common in private sector). The crux of the matter is that if a company has huge numbers of vacancies they need to do something and often that’s a pay rise. I’ve seen substantial increases in practically every service and goods that I pay for so cost is being passed on. Without a pay rise it means less cash to spend propping up private businesses. Of course can’t let inflation spiral out of control but 3% when inflation is double digits is an enormous pay cut. The government will slash any pay risk that junior Drs ask for so I guess they need to go in high. When you look at their pay I think they fully deserve the 22% anyway

"Exclusive: No.10 plans to ease restrictions on City bosses' pay - while preaching 'wage restraint' to everyone else."

twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1538952872171388931?s=21&t=3x47R_um1yRIN1QoCQA6KA

And for whoever it was saying MPs had a 20% payrise- their pay is linked to public sector pay. Last year they had a pay rise of 0%. This year it was 2.7%. If lots of public sector workers get a big pay rise, so will MPs.

You do realize that we have the highest tax burden for almost 70 years? The worst thing to do is to tax people more. That just shows that the govt has run out of ideas, which it has. The law of finishing returns kicks in at this stage and eventually goes negative.

Right, but how bad do you want the recruitment crisis in the NHS to get. Unless their salaries can compete with the private sector then they will not be able to recruit.

The stark choice is the government either address pay problems or loses staff. Almost everyone I know who works in the NHS has left in the last few years or is thinking about leaving (some to retrain and some to other countries).

They do when it come to awarding contracts to their pals and donors

Import cheap labour. That’s always the answer. At least it has been in this country for the last 20 or so years. Don’t be surprised to see the govt use this situation to achieve this.

@Muppet2022 mind my asking where you're going?

I've lost track of PPs but I'll add that I do find the assertion that only doctors are highly qualified to be insulting. Some of my dearest friends are doctors and I respect their work and their roles. But I too have two Master's degrees, many years of experience, and obtained Dips in my speciality as well as being a non medical prescriber. I do teaching and mentoring and work with medical students and junior doctors. I also pay up the nose in professional fees each year (£140 alone for my nursing reg). And my wage has gone DOWN this year due to NI raise. It really is coming to a point where it's not worth it anymore.

You do realize that we have the highest tax burden for almost 70 years? The worst thing to do is to tax people more.

It's not equal though. What's wrong with bringing capital gains and dividend taxes ought to match income tax bands?
Or having higher levies on 2nd properties & foreign ownership?

Right, but how bad do you want the recruitment crisis in the NHS to get. Unless their salaries can compete with the private sector then they will not be able to recruit.

The private sector won't be doling out rises in line with inflation, don't worry.

The nhs needs a radical overhaul, with its purpose, management and how it's funded all rethought. Either we move to a much higher tax economy or large swathes of it get privatised, the current model just isn't functional.

The government needs more money. The nhs is in crisis. The number of midwives is dangerously low. Having a baby in this country is getting scary. We need nurse and midwife training bursaries. People are dying as ambulances aren’t getting to them as there is a back log at A&E due to bedblocking - cause, lack of social care. These are just two examples. We can’t keep bleeding earners dry without looking at taxing wealth too.

They absolutely can’t and won’t on the back of the Brexit messaging.

How will that look to the average voter: we’d rather import cheap Labour than pay the hospital staff that we’re out pandemic heroes a living wage.

The about face I messaging would give even the most hardened Tory voter whiplash.

Let’s hope that all those asking for higher pay and not getting it didn’t support Covid lockdowns. If they did, then they asked for this

Accurately put

The decisions made around Covid aren't the only factor in this, but they're a hell of a big one all the same

Lots of people in the private sector should have had pay rises and would have if shareholders hadnt been so greedy.

@sst1234 we may have a high tax burden but the tax is not distributed efficiently. We need to be taxing more at the top and putting the money into roadworks and schools and hospitals, not corrupt PPE contracts and turning a blind eye when Rishi's wife doesn't pay tax. It disgusts me. Just look at other countries in Europe who have high tax burdens yet have smooth roads, good schools, and healthcare systems without 12 hour A&E waits or 18 month cardiology waits. I'd gladly pay more if the money actually did something besides lining the pockets of Etonians.

I think it’s a bit of a mistake to see private sector as all fine and having had a good time recently

For many they bore the brunt of pandemic response, in worst case losing livelihoods

@sst1234

And how will they do that with brexit?

And not lose all the votes they gained on the back of keeping the foreigners out?