Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

I’m unclear if it was the whole of Canada or one province but the nurses threatened to strike over pay rise and the government turned round and said fine, then gave them a pay cut 😮said they cut it again if they tried to bribe the government again.

I’m nhs and quite honestly hate the constant delays so April’s pay rise never actually happens. 22% is ridiculous. As soon as one sector wins an increase everyone will strike so I don’t expect the government to give in - it would bring the country to a stand still.

@WotsitsQuavers this is the exact opposite of what needs to happen, it will just force inflation higher. People calling for huge increases misunderstand macroeconomics and how things interact.

The inflation has largely been caused (around the world, not just in the UK) because of shortages. Shortages of fuel, food, cars, computer chips. After the pandemic, in a time of inactivity and lack of production there was a huge surge for goods. The surge couldn’t be met as there hadn’t been production to meet demand. This causes prices to rise. It is been compounded by the war reducing supplies of food and fuel, pushing prices up further.

To reduce inflation we need there to be less demand, which is why the government will not meet the unions demands for higher wages. If wages increase, demand won’t decrease and the situation will be extended for everyone.

But while we wait for a pay rise my employer is increasing the cost of parking for staff… yay 🙄

BofE printed £445 billion in the 8 years that followed the financial crisis. It printed a further £450 billion in the two years during Covid, stopping for a breather in May 2022.

I'm not sure what the point of your numbers was? I simply said QE was propping up the economy before covid.

On the lockdown point, we had a choice to not lock down healthy working age adults. Choices have consequences. This situation was not inevitable.

Again my point was if you do go with lockdown you can't not support people. They were paid in part to be passive.

The private sector already pay more, that’s the issue. If you are a young person looking at where to invest your time and energy would it be medicine or the tech industry? One pays an average wage for long and unsociable hours and the other is increasingly WFH and well paid.

Why should people work in a job where inflation is gouging there wages when they could move to another sector and earn more. Answer: they won’t and the whole system will collapse under the strain.

The same goes for social care (some of the lowest paid public sector workers), teaching assistants, fire fighter etc. These are all vital jobs. They need to be paid well enough to keep vacancies low. I’m not sure that any business would look at the enormous list of job vacancies the NHS has and not raise their salary off to attract interest. Why is it not the same for the public sector?

We need to be taxing more at the top

We already do, as seen from the % of overall income tax contributed by "the top"

Also, not often being shackled by PAYE, "the top" have a lot more flexibility. Demand too much and (perfectly legal) arrangements get made whereby the exchequer receives nothing - in other words yet another case of being careful what's wished for

@fyn

That ignored what motivates people.

People are motivated by worth and value.

Its what we hear although time about higher earners

Funny how you're not suggesting we massively cut higher earners wages to help reduce demand

As a public sector worker I'd be interested to know how a job with my level of qualification, responsibility, stress etc would be paid in the private sector. I know a private sector worker in IT who doesn't manage anyone, noone dies if it goes wrong (although I guess people lose money) and who seems to have an average level of "specialist knowledge" but gets paid double what I do. But then I also know someone managing a 100 people, where poor risk assessments could lead to serious harm, working crazy hours getting paid less. I feel like I don't want more than anyone else, or someone else to be worse off as I am better off. But it also irks me that I work really hard doing something quite thankless and other sectors may pay a lot more for something "easier".

To reduce inflation we need there to be less demand, which is why the government will not meet the unions demands for higher wages. If wages increase, demand won’t decrease and the situation will be extended for everyone.

The problem is we also have far more inequality than the 70s. So some will be unaffected & still have money & there will be demand.

If private sector organisations can't recruit they raise salaries... the public sector should do the same. Focus the money on where the biggest recruitment gaps are and at the starting stage of each profession, to encourage people to join it.

Agree we should tax capital more to fund this. And revalue council tax, which is still based on what properties were worth in 1991.

Does the rate of inflation take into account massive rental price rises?

I too am private sector and have never not had a pay rise. This year it was over 10%.

We are not all in a race to the bottom.

You want to accept little or no pay rise for yourself. But why should everyone else have to do the same?

The % of over all tax isn't enough, proportionally regardless of the over all figure and the old oh they'll just avoid and evade is a load of bollocks and could easily be prevented if the govt had the balls to.

Ironically the main reason that these loopholes don't get closed is that those companies pay their tax accountants more than HMRC, so can attract the talent.

I see they are TODAY talking about removing restrictions on bankers' pay and bonuses - I wonder how it is that my pay rise is inflationary, but a banker's pay rise is not

twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1539006333374156800

If you fall for the Tory bullshit on wages needing to be 'responsible' you are either super rich or super stupid or both.

Benefits are increasing by a minimum of 9.5% next year, surely there is an argument for all salaries increasing by the same amount. If the public has no spare money then industries like retail will crash.

@Topgub your lack of understanding of economics is astounding.

It makes absolutely no odds what the top earners make, they’ll be able to pay for the goods no matter what. We need the general demand from the majority of the population to drop.

Privatising may well cause wages to rise. That's what happened with train drivers, under BR they didn't earn a living wage and were reliant upon overtime to put food on the table. Once BR was broken up, the new companies realised that it was cheaper to poach drivers from other operators, rather than training their own. So wages rocketed as the companies tried to out-compete each other.

I could see that happening with doctors, after all there is a shortage. Freed of the NHS monopoly, doctors would have many more opportunities to offer their services elsewhere so healthcare providers would have to compete for them.

Who pays for the increases?

Who gets taxed most

Companies such as Starbucks etc ensure their profits arise in low tax jurisdictions such as Ireland and Luxembourg. That’s changing. A minimum corporation tax rate is being brought in internationally. fixing issues like this cannot be done by one country acting alone, which is why it hasn’t been tackled by the UK government up to now.

We already do, as seen from the % of overall income tax contributed by "the top"

Tax is really not equal at the top, there's a reason the gap is growing & the rich are getting richer.

"Using anonymised data from personal tax returns, we show that in 2015-16 the average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent: the same as someone earning £100,000. But one in four of these paid 45 per cent – close to the top rate – whilst another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent—the same as someone earning £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together."

fixing issues like this cannot be done by one country acting alone,

agreed, it's not a global initiative

Im private sector in a company thats done well out of covid but i only received a 2.3% payrise this year. Im on a fairly goid wage but struggling nonetheless 😢

Paying more just means more inflation. Then interest rates go up. A lot of people have borrowed money especially now petrol and other basics are astronomical.

I’d rather have less pay than having to pay back my borrowing at huge interest rates . It’s not great having debt but at least it’s currently affordable.

@fyn

I never claimed to be an economist 🤷‍♀️

Cut their wages enough and they'll be like everyone else

Your lack of understanding on what motivates people and the fact that the general population dont have a firm grasp on economics at that level is clear.

We cant get people to drop demand despite telling them they are literally destroying the plant.

You think they'll give a fuck about inflation?!

🤣🤣

Because rich people are worried it will impact their savings

🤣