Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

I'm fed up of all this so I'm giving myself a pay rise by (sadly, after many years) leaving the NHS and going to work for the private sector, which in my part of the health sector actually does pay better for well qualified staff.

It isn't really about the the money, more about the stupid, family unfriendly, grueling, round the clock shift work which we now have to do, and the impossible expectations put on each employee.

My new job is 9-5, no weekends, no nights (unless I want to do them for extra money), no bank holidays. For the first time in years I won't have to work Christmas. I'm not the only one leaving, there's a net efflux of qualified staff at the moment.

Maybe some numbers will help.

BofE printed £445 billion in the 8 years that followed the financial crisis. It printed a further £450 billion in the two years during Covid, stopping for a breather in May 2022.

On the lockdown point, we had a choice to not lock down healthy working age adults. Choices have consequences. This situation was not inevitable.

My husband works for a pharmaceutical company and got 1.5%. In real terms quite a pay cut this year :(

‘Let them eat snake’ says the private sector.

@fyn

That ignores the fact that without recognising what a role is worth, people won't do it.

Why on earth should public sector be getting a real terms pay cut? We’ve got a labour shortage across multiple sectors and had 100k vacancies in the NHS before brexit! I’d imagine junior doctors are after an above inflation rise because they could quite easily move abroad and get better pay and conditions. I’m sure many already have.

In teaching they’re weighing a pay rise to be larger for new teachers, and actually the national structure has been changed so it’s not necessarily linked to length of service anymore. This means harder to fill vacancies can be given more money.

I think if it’s below inflation again there will be strikes. No one wants this but we’ve had real terms pay cuts or pay freeze for 15 years now, pensions have been devalued and it’s just miserable working constantly short staffed.

There clearly is money because the number of millionaires is going up, MP pay has kept pace with inflation… QE, designed to protect the rich and these ridiculous covid loans the government has written off are what’s causing inflation, that and brexit devaluation of the pound. None of that’s my doing why should I be poorer as a result?

sure band 1 has been phased out. But the point still stands for band 2.

Why are doctors the lowest paid in the hospital on a bank holiday?
Makes no sense given how much time they’ve put into studying for exam after exam whilst accumulating huge student loans.

I'm sure I read that the 1% made 1.7 trillion in the pandemic

There's your money @Hoardasurass

Whilst I understand that public sectors workers all want a pay rise of 11-14%, wouldn’t this just fuel a further rise in inflation? And leave us in the same position but having borrowed more this time next year? A wage-price spiral, like in the 1970s when, I think, inflation eventually peaked at 26%.

@kathleen567

Theyre not.

They get 30k fy1 year and 35 fy2 year. Plus their enhanced rates for pH.

Its essentially still a teaching post.

Student nurses in England have to pay to work a bank holiday.

So, no. FY1s are not the lowest paid on a bank holiday.

BBC news tonight at ten they said that there will be a news briefing at some stage ' leveling ' with people , with graphs and all kinds of things to try and persuade people that they can manage just fine without a pay rise. The reporter described it as ' bad news '.
I wonder which press reporter will be the first to mention MP pay rises and expenses ? ..
I can't see this going down well , although it will be a chance to see the very expensive briefing room again to give us all ' covid briefing ' flash backs. Which three word slogan will be dreamt up by then ?

@kathleen567 , cleaners are absolutely not paid £18.40. They start as band 2 with £18,870 p.a. (9.49 per hour) And increase to £19,918 pa (10.19 per hour).

Im sure that everyone is in need of a wage increase to keep pace with inlation, public sector or not. But what is forgotten often when discussing nursing pay is how much unpaid overtime and breakbacking labour is expected of nurses.

I currently work in outpatients, rota from 9-5 each day, 37.5 hours per week. Clinic opens at nine and I’m expected to be in my uniform on the floor ready to work at 8:45 and regularly don’t leave until 5:15, 5:30, 5:45. Nearly every day. Plus I’m run off my feet throughout the day with no opportunity for lunch or a tea break or even a wee. My mates on the wards have it a thousand times worse, staffing levels sometimes at 40%. Not to mention the abuse that’s shouted at us from patients who are (often fairly enough) frustrated with waits and delays and poor service due to staffing issues post Covid. And this leads to daily situations where you hope and pray you patient care isn’t compromised and you won’t be put in a situation where you might lose your PIN. I don’t know why anyone wants to go into nursing anymore really.

Same here,!!!😒

We went on strike when we were given a 20% pay cut (actual cut, not relative after adjusting for inflation). That was in2016, and Jeremy Hunt just imposed the contract anyway. So I don’t think you need to worry too much about junior doctors getting anything you aren’t getting.

The money given to employees get recirculated back to the economy (groceries, holidays, retail, pet industry etc) creating jobs.

The top 1-2% richest people who made money during the pandemic through government contracts like PPE - their money goes into tax havens

Private sector here- pay rise of 2%. Salaries in my profession have not gone up in real terms for over 15 years.

@Topgub that will definitely make a significant contribution if we actually make companies like Starbucks, amazon et al pay the tax the should and close all tax loopholes we might just get somewhere

See what happening with the labour market here. The UK suffered with some of the lowest wages since the bad old days of Labour introducing tax credits to subsidize low pay and suppress wages. And importing cheap labour from Eastern Europe.

Now we have labour import restrictions due to Brexit, a labour shortage, pressure on pay and strikes. What might happen next? Does this sound like good justification for importing cheap labour from around the world. And suppress wages further. You betcha.

Pay caps and pay freezes mean a real time pay cut for over 10 years due to inflation, its not just because of the recent rise in cost of living, this is an ongoing issue. I've never had more that 1% and that is has only ever happened 2 times in the past 6 years.

To be honest though I think it is much worse in the health sector. Carers and incredibly well educated nurses especially are not valued for the service provided which is why many of them are moving to private. Carers can't currently afford to run their cars to attend to patients on NHS salary.

There is an incredible amount of wastage in public sector subventing work to private contracts because of underesourced and underpaid staff being pushed to breaking point. Money has to be invested in the workforce to retain and attract decent staff that will in turn give a decent service.

@Topgub On weekends, bank holidays and nights it is totally normal to have 1 junior dr covering every medical ward in a hospital.

I’m a “junior doctor” (at 33 with 2 degrees, postgrad exams, huge debts and extortionate professional fees just to to go work) and I genuinely believe that if the general public really knew how understaffed, dangerous and toxic the NHS is to work in they would be grateful that we have any drs at all!

Talking to new trainees coming through, none of them plan on staying in the NHS. Most plan to move abroad or work for private companies. If we want to keep our NHS staffed we need to make it attractive and a year on year pay cut is not that.

I'm public sector and my pay has only increased by 4,300pa over 14 years!

I think if it’s below inflation again there will be strikes.

It will be below inflation. The vast, vast majority of people who actually do get a payrise this year (and plenty won't) will be below inflation. Because it simply just possible or advisable in the current situation to be doling out pay rises of 15-20% across the board. It won't be happening anywhere, save perhaps the very highest performing individuals in the most profitable sectors.

@Goldi321

I guess it depends how you're defining responsible for.

If this continues (public sector demands for more cash) do you realise the govt will just throw up their hands and sell off/privatise the lot for profit?….and then absolutely everybody will have lost☹️.

While it's not a race to the bottom, saying doctors get paid the least on some specific shifts is disingenuous at best.

This might be true for a couple of years when just starting out, but salaries quickly rise and can get to 6 figures at Consultant level (not including private work).

The band 2s (as a PP has said band 1s don't exist any more because they earned less than minimum wage) will not be getting anything like you'll be getting in 10 years' time.