Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

Too late for no impact, maybe go take a look in education/healthcare/policing and see how low morale is. Staff are leaving in huge numbers to go abroad/to the private sector due to poor pay and working conditions and services cannot recruit. As a result, they cannot provide the service.

If you think telling them to be grateful they are earning more than nmw and have a pension will fix it, you are utterly deluded. No-one is expecting an above inflation pay rise but they are going to have to offer better than 3% if you want staff to remain in post

@MamanDeChoix

Your post is disgusting. I’m not going to engage with you again as you obviously are just on here to get a kick out of being unreasonable and nasty.

I’ve just told you that I can’t afford to work full time because I am looking after high needs my elderly parents and you say I should be grateful for my lot. Utterly vile.

@prescribingmum Spot on! How many threads on here moan at the state of the NHS? I have worked in the NHS for all of my working life, 28 years and morale / staffing levels have never been worse.

I don’t really care about pensions, great if some find them good, nor people feeling grateful.

But some have asked for above inflation so ‘no one’ is incorrect

@MarshaBradyo

We (in the bottom 90) all already are impacted in terms of rising cost, stagnating wages and public services that can't cope with poor funding and no staff.

Instead of saying its unfair for those people to want fair pay you seem to be saying, ach there's no point telling the top 10% they'll have to foot the bill?

So everyone but me and them (natch) should?

We’re paid for by the “rest of you” (again, conveniently forgetting that public sector workers pay tax too) so that you can have your cancer scare investigated, your child educated, the person who burgles your house arrested, tried and imprisoned, your state pension administered, your disability benefits assessed and paid, your tax rebate awarded, your street lighting maintained, your bins emptied, the passport for your holiday produced, your driving licence issued, your food confirmed as safe to eat…I could go on and on and on but hopefully I’ve made the point. And even if you personally don’t use some of these services, there are millions in the country who do.

This. Good Lord we've got people complaining they think they have it worse so others must suffer more too - but never mind the excess profits and dividends for share holders. Or mates of cabinet members.

Only if the fiscal bottom 99% of the U.K. realise now much closer we all are than the top 1% will we move forward.

They want us to bicker. Stops us targeting the proper thieves in our society.

The tax system is top heavy so they do take a load of the tax bill

‘The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues: a higher share than at any time in past twenty years. In other words, three in every ten pounds that the government receives in income tax is paid by just over 300,000 individuals.’

There may be room for another tax for those who don’t get income but have high assets - I think studies are looking into it, I don’t think any Labour government has introduced a wealth tax though, iirc there were noises about it a couple of years ago but they seem to have gone quiet

It’s not just tax here though as like the nimble footed public service they have options and compare tax with o/s too

You’re totally missing the point. The amazing pensions you speak of aren’t. The pensions used to make up for lower, comparable pay. They now don’t. Skilled workers will be better off in the private sector my husband is one.

Going from 40k and his so called amazing pension to well into 6 figures, bonus, much bigger pension pot is much better off and considerably more than most will have.

Issue is, he’s not the only one and it’s not that unusual. Anyone with a decent skill set will be much better off in the private sector. That filters down to other areas such as medicine and education. Which leads to the problem we have now. Chronic understaffing because the pensions are shit and not enough to keep people in with the way salaries are.

@MarshaBradyo

The tax bill is not top heavy.

No one would be making millions and billions if it was.

Those at the top should be paying the most.

More than 30%

If they distributed the wages more evenly it wouldn't seem so top heavy.

Teachers unions are asking for higher than inflation rises with staff being balloted for strike action if needed.

Anyone with a decent skill set will be much better off in the private sector.

See, I don't think the evidence for that is there.

How many six figure salaries are actually on offer?

As demonstrated, you'd have to be on that for 30 years at an employer contribution of 12% to get 20k a year in a pension.

People talk about the private sector like everyone's an investment banker or magic circle law firm partner, but that's not the case at all. There just aren't a huge amount of those very high paid jobs. Most private sector jobs will be a bit better paid than public sector, but without the benefit of a DB pension, which is extremely valuable.

They're not paying 30% in tax but 1% take 30% of burden, the next level down also take a fair whack so the tax burden is mostly paid for by top percentages.

It’s not ny words btw top heavy is from here

www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/how-much-tax-do-the-rich-really-pay

There really is. I would say he’s on the low end too. Literally, every person he worked with in the public sector was head hunted. Even those without his skill set can command 70-90k in comparison to 30k tops.

As he said, a high contribution percentage of a crap salary is still a crap deal.

They have asked, I can say with certainty they aren't expecting to receive it. You need to ask for far more than you ever expect just to receive something with this government. You seem to have forgotten how they offered NHS a paltry 1% last year despite 10 years of freezes and going above and beyond through covid.

Asking for more allowed bargaining upto 3%...exactly what all the unions are doing right now

Even those without his skill set can command 70-90k in comparison to 30k tops.

If every high skilled person in the public sector could command 3 times their salary at the drop of a hat, I agree that would cause issues. But that clearly isn't the case or else why is anyone still there? I'm presuming your husband is in quite a niche area if what you're saying here is true.

And as demonstrated, unless they're on these salaries for 30 years + then their private sector pensions aren't actually that great at all.

@MarshaBradyo

Yes, I know they're not paying 30% tax. Some pay none

That wasn't my point

If 1% are taking 99% of the income they should be paying 99% of the tax. Not 30%

@TheKeatingFive

I stay because of my role, my pts and my staff. And my principles I suppose.

I'm not motivated by money. But thats not the same as accepting being shat on and underpaid and undervalued.

I haven't read all the thread, but agree with others: they found a magic money forest for their cronies, but can't even find a miserable sapling for the ordinary workers who kept the economy going during covid.

I stay because of my role, my pts and my staff. And my principles I suppose

Do you think you could get three times your salary in the private sector? If you do (and you do your sums on pension provision and it's worth it) then why wouldn't you leave? Sometimes you have to vote with your feet.

I may have to.

But I've not reached my limit yet

Ok good luck with that, not sure who’ll fund the tax burden after you deliver the news

@MarshaBradyo

OK.

Good luck with getting those at the bottom to accept shit wages so those at the top dont have to be impacted

🤷‍♀️

It is true. It’s not exactly that niche really. In demand and very skilled. Which is why the public sector is actually struggling for skilled workers. It is happening right now, not a projection.

That is the problem. My husband, young, fit and extremely skilled. Stay in for a meh salary, watching his pension become decimated or spend the last 30 odd years of his working life earning a bloody good salary. There is the problem you see. People are leaving just as the reach a pinnacle in their career, with expertise the sector really could do with. It is the same in other sectors. That’s why they have the problem. I know this because we have literally lived these real life decisions and scenarios people are guessing at on here. People are literally making the choice to walk away because of what you said.

A public sector pension based on a crap salary is utterly pointless best get out asap. That’s how it works.