Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

They have asked, I can say with certainty they aren't expecting to receive it.

ok so they have asked, fair admission. We’ll see if they go with lower, I’m sure no one wants a strike.

Everyone can't command 3 times but those who are highly skilled can get more (especially when perks and mental health benefits are considered) and are doing do because the conditions are so poor in public sector.

I had a similar mindset to @Topgub for all my career and stayed in NHS watching so many others move to private sector but post COVID, I was truly done with being treated like a piece of dirt on someone's shoe for little thanks. If the government gave NHS workers a 20% payrise tomorrow, I still wouldn't consider returning - that gives you an idea of how much better it is in the private sector as a skilled worker

DH is NHS - highly paid, consultant with some management responsibilities, no plans to retire for 20 plus years and on “old” NHS pension.

He receives:

• about half of his final salary for life. That would be about 60k pa at the moment ie twice the average salary in the UK.
• I get spousal benefit if he pops his clogs. I think this is 50%.

£60k pa for potentially 35 years is astonishingly good, especially as after fulfilling all his NHS responsibilities he also sees PP’s and will likely continue working, either in the UK or overseas.

Anyone who doesn’t recognize that as a major perk needs to give their head a wobble.

If people can move and do better great, private sector has its own realities and if you look at job type polls there’s always a fair amount of disgruntlement

We all have the freedom to choose careers we want. Be in finance if it’s your gig, it’s not mine as the culture isn’t what I want but others do which is fine by me.

@MarshaBradyo

Yup.

A public sector pension based on a crap salary is utterly pointless

Well no. Because building up a pension pot from scratch is no small feat.

350,000 is roughly what you'd need to get 20,000 a year in pension provision. That would require saving the around 15,000 every year for 20 years, assuming that you don't hit any major stock market crashes in that time.

So a reasonable proportion of an average public sector salary isn't bad at all compared to that

You are talking about old pensions. There lies the problem. People who are younger won’t get that.

If the pensions were so good now, the public
sector wouldn’t have an issue. It now has an aged workforce and anyone with a decent skill set with their working life to lead are better off out. The pension isn’t a perk. That’s the point and you highlighted that by mentioning old pension.

Firstly, you are referring to someone on the old pension. This was closed a long time ago to the majority. Secondly, you are talking about a highly paid consultant - the majority of NHS staff only dream of earning a 6 figure salary and can't make ends meet right now.

It is not a perk for someone who is earning less than 40k and on the new pension who is struggling to feed their family. Disingenuous at its best 🙄

£60k pa for potentially 35 years is astonishingly good

Well quite, you'd need well over a million in your pension pot to get that in a DC pension scheme.

Anyone with a decent skill set will be much better off in the private sector

IME it depends what's meant by better off. Depending on the particular skills the money may or may not be better, but at least those in the private sector are more likely to enjoy a proactive environment and avoid the "can't do" mentality

It depends what's meant by "skills" too. I'm sure we all know people who are incredibly well qualified and clever on paper but who lack an iota of common sense, and again IME it's these who often rely on public service jobs, knowing full well that the almost total lack of accountability will ensure an easy ride

'A public sector pension based on a crap salary is utterly pointless'

Even on an 80'th's pension with 40 years input - that is HALF of your working average income, guaranteed FOR LIFE, with indexation and Zero investment risk. Plus 50% spousal pension, and no NI to be paid.

Obtaining that 'utterley pointless' pension outside of a defined benefit pension, would cost one a pretty penny.

Not really. Crap salary is still a crap salary with decent pension contributions. The pension does not outweigh the issue of bad pay. Which is what you’re spectacularly missing (repeatedly). Which is why the public sector has such an issue. If people think the pensions are so good nowadays, come on over.

So.Get.A.Public.Sector.Pension.

Quoted for factual accuracy and this is the issue.

If people think the pensions are so good nowadays, come on over.

You know what, I actually would. Because I do understand the benefit. I didn't at the time of choosing my career and as it happens, my job doesn't have an exact parallel in the public sector. I would have chosen differently if I'd understood that.

Obtaining that 'utterley pointless' pension outside of a defined benefit pension, would cost one a pretty penny.

Quite

@TheKeatingFive

So chose a different job.

It will be worth it. They're all easy and you don't need any intelligence, common sense or even a brain it would seem

It is not a perk for someone who is earning less than 40k and on the new pension who is struggling to feed their family. Disingenuous at its best

I included role and salary details in the interests of full disclosure, actually. The fact remains that even at 40k you’re massively better off with a public sector pension (even under the “reformed” offer) than with an equivalent private sector scheme.

I qualified in law at the same time as DH qualified as a doctor. I out-earned him
at the beginning, but the roles are now reversed. We’ve always paid 10% of our salaries each to maximize employer contributions. The difference now is that mine was worth £18k a year (until recently - too scared to look now given what the markets are doing) and his is worth £60k, and he doesn’t have to worry about investment markets.

There see loads of reasons why I couldn’t do what DH does, and I’m glad his pension is so good, but to suggest it’s anything other than bloody amazingly generous is really obtuse.

Well you should as there is a recruitment crisis. Come on over and see. The pensions now are no where near what’s quoted on here if they were that good there wouldn’t be an issue. For those at the back, pensions now are not keeping people in the public sector as on a balance, the crap salary doesn’t swing it. Better off out especially if you’re not that old and earn sub 40k.

@Itisasecret

I don't know what people aren't getting.

Its weird

The pensions now are no where near what’s quoted on here if they were that good there wouldn’t be an issue.

I honestly just don't think people understand. You see it on here all the time, they don't understand the value of what they have or how it compares to what they'd get elsewhere.

There was a nurse on here a
while ago thinking about moving to private sector and had an offer. On the advice of posters on here, she talked to a financial advisor about what difference it would make to her pension and she was absolutely horrified by the difference. She didn't move. Many people don't cop it until they've done it.

In general, education around pension provision, what to do and why it's important is awful.

It’s people being argumentative for the sake of it. People who don’t actually live in the situation. Skilled trades nowadays, younger workforce are much better off leaving before 40 getting a much better salary and private pension.

Anyone under 40 with a decent skill set isn’t staying because the pension is no longer with it compared to the private sector and the benefits over the working life. The public sector is losing competency and “experienced youth.” Those 30-40. If it was all so amazing we’d have enough nurses, maths teachers, engineers. IT people but we don’t because of the actual real life reality.

@TheKeatingFive

Or maybe its because the amazing pension doesn't make up for all the negatives

Or maybe its because the amazing pension doesn't make up for all the negatives

Look I'm not disagreeing with that. There are many reasons to leave/stay in a job. I'm just saying people don't understand the value of this one element. I totally appreciate it's only one element.

@TheKeatingFive

Tad patronising

People can disagree its amazing and still understand the worth.

People can disagree its amazing and still understand the worth

This is a non sequitur if you do in fact understand the worth.

Getting down and dirty with a few DC schemes in the private sector might help.