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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

727 replies

stickershock · 20/06/2022 21:20

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

OP posts:
fromdownwest · 22/06/2022 10:13

Topgub · 22/06/2022 10:11

@Seymour5

Shouldn't everyone have the opportunity to be paid reasonably well, with good sick pay and holidays and be able to save for retirement?

Shouldn't we be asking why its not offered to the lowest paid in the private sector whilst those at the top are making millions and billions and trillions?

Not at the expense of others. Can you not see, that if you want increased public sector spending, then the money comes from ALL tax payers. So increased taxes for all, for increased benefits for a few.

prescribingmum · 22/06/2022 10:25

The attitudes here are not necessarily surprising, but they are depressing. The race to the bottom mentality. The references to “taxpayers subsidising public sector workers”, as though public sector workers aren’t taxpayers too, and as if the reason for our existence wasn’t to provide services that everyone needs and benefits from, free at the point of use. The quickness to criticise those services without the ability or willingness to join the dots to see that if you systematically downvalue a profession, if you successfully demonise it so that pay freezes and removal of some of the rewards that made it attractive to workers are seen as “justified”, if you support endless cuts and recruitment freezes when they’re badged as “trimming back a bloated Civil Service” then you get the public services you deserve, delivered by exhausted, demoralised, overworked staff who are constantly expected to do more with less.

This could not be more correct. I am a pharmacist by profession, worked for NHS in hospitals from the day I qualified and F2F through first COVID wave. PPE was non-existent at the start, there was no sympathy for childcare difficulties - my manager expected me to just place my 1 and 3 year olds in the unfamiliar hospital nursery and for me to report to work and deal with the separation struggles. This is similar to many NHS workers and I accepted the situation in a national emergency. Whilst lots of gratitude and thanks was given, clearly workers are not worthy of any form of renumeration to reflect this.

I have been contacted by private companies with opportunities many times over the years and in late 2020, I took the jump. Flexible working, much higher pay (almost 1.5 fold increase), private healthcare plus a host of other benefits. Yes the pension does not match but the work life balance is a million times better, I work around school hours and have the flexibility to pop out for concerts/sports days etc and make up the time. As a package, it cannot be beaten by the basic NHS pension that PP bleat on about being so wonderful. We have also had a pay rise this year (not in line with inflation but more than I could have hoped for). This is a like for like comparison for a professional job for a highly trained individual (Masters degree, post graduate qualification plus years of specialist training). Comparing me to a minimum wage private sector individual who has not received a pay rise is not equivalent.

I am one of many who have left long term NHS roles in the last few years due to being utterly fed up with zero flexibility, working far more hours than paid for and absolutely no thanks for the work. Patients are always angry because they have had to wait for the service and we bear the brunt of the anger. What is completely missed is the service needs more skilled staff to operate better which cannot be found as no-one wants to work in those conditions.

It is the same with teaching - 3 friends have moved over to the private sector and have no intention to return to state. They have far better working conditions, timetables that allow them to mark and plan properly and far higher salary. Again, they are only too happy to leave the pension behind for the new work life balance. 3 excellent teachers who will not return to teach in a state school at a huge loss to the public.

All those condemning the public sector because they themselves haven't got their private sector pay rises - be careful what you wish for. There won't be anyone left to do the essential roles soon

Topgub · 22/06/2022 10:26

@fromdownwest

I dont think the pension is bad. Its of no use to anyone who can't afford to pay it but its not bad.

I won't go to the private sector (yet) because I dont agree with private health care. At some point though the working conditions will force my hand, as they have others.

And yes, of course public spending comes from public money.

It pays for services we all need. Id rather pay more tax and fund those services appropriately than what we have now.

We're told we have no choice but to pay increased housing costs, fuel costs, food costs because businesses need the profits.

Public sector workers aren't ripping you off. They want fair wages for the service they provide.

Retain the right staff in public sector and everyone benefits.

Fulbe · 22/06/2022 10:31

It would be a great way of stimulating the economy, as of course it would be spent, rather than going into second/third/fourth homes which is what happens when you give money to the rich. The latest budget gave 2/3 of tax breaks to the richest, so the money is there it's just where they choose to put it. Also MPs have been giving themselves pay rises for years.

In Margaret Thatcher's day, the top rate of tax was 80%. These days it's 45%. The money is there.

Seymour5 · 22/06/2022 10:59

Topgub · 22/06/2022 10:11

@Seymour5

Shouldn't everyone have the opportunity to be paid reasonably well, with good sick pay and holidays and be able to save for retirement?

Shouldn't we be asking why its not offered to the lowest paid in the private sector whilst those at the top are making millions and billions and trillions?

Of course everyone should have the opportunity, I was merely pointing out that an unqualified person doing a fairly basic job in a local authority is not doing too badly. Often better than a qualified nurse. All public sector.

The lowest paid in the private sector are done no favours by the likes of the RMT. It was the same in the 70s and 80s. Those in the closed shop, nationalised industries benefited, at least in the short term, but many others in private industry, small businesses and self employed went to the wall.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:16

Topgub · 21/06/2022 18:34

@Callingoccupants

How do you think the economy is currently benefitting the many?

Im referring to the strikes, which are benefitting the few, to the detriment of the many. As for the economy, the fact that its in poor shape should be an indicator that now is not the time to be selfish.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:17

The lowest paid in either sector are done no favours by anyone

Least of those at the top.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:18

@Callingoccupants

Its in a poor state precisely because of the greed and selfishness of those taking the most.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:19

Maybe scrutiny should be given to those on Huge salaries at the top of councils. That would save some money. That and getting rid of nonsense job titles, created in the name of diversity. All money wasting.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:20

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:18

@Callingoccupants

Its in a poor state precisely because of the greed and selfishness of those taking the most.

Such as ...?

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:20

This reply has been withdrawn

We've withdrawn this post at the OP's request

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:22

@Callingoccupants

Such as billion and trillion pound profits

Such as multimillion pound wages

You dont know this but you know about 'huge salaries' in councils?

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:24

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:22

@Callingoccupants

Such as billion and trillion pound profits

Such as multimillion pound wages

You dont know this but you know about 'huge salaries' in councils?

You're still not being clear. Care to elaborate

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:26

@Callingoccupants

No.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:29

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:26

@Callingoccupants

No.

Okay. So your previous post is nothing but hyperbole. You seem to have a protected interest here. Nice juicy pension and fat salary at the tax payer's expense then, all the time being a staunch Labourite. Just my opinion, of course.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:33

@Callingoccupants

If my post is hyperbole, so is yours

Wrong on all counts I'm afraid.

And as if you also don't have a protected interest.

Well off, greedy tory who can't grasp the concept of fair wages.

fromdownwest · 22/06/2022 11:35

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:29

Okay. So your previous post is nothing but hyperbole. You seem to have a protected interest here. Nice juicy pension and fat salary at the tax payer's expense then, all the time being a staunch Labourite. Just my opinion, of course.

Don't let facts get in the way of an argument.
Profits from business are not all bad, it is the only way that we will be able to have a pension as luxurious as yours! We rely on successful businesses to provide our retirment income, yours, is paid for by the tax payer.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:37

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:33

@Callingoccupants

If my post is hyperbole, so is yours

Wrong on all counts I'm afraid.

And as if you also don't have a protected interest.

Well off, greedy tory who can't grasp the concept of fair wages.

All you had to say was your pp was riddled with Tory spending, whilst conveniently forgetting the strikes are Labour orientated. What I can grasp, unlike you, is that unions, yet again want to bring the country to its knees. So going back to my pp, how is that demonstrating their for the many not the few mantra? Make that a rhetorical question as you didn't get it the first time.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:37

@fromdownwest

How bitter are you? Dear me.

I'd rather my tax money paid a nurses pension than fund a business owners.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:39

@Callingoccupants

Yeah it will need to ne rhetorical cause I've no idea why you're asking me about rail strikers

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:40

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:37

@fromdownwest

How bitter are you? Dear me.

I'd rather my tax money paid a nurses pension than fund a business owners.

I'd rather my tax didn't fund overpaid salaries in the public sector, with the exception of the medical profession.

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:40

@fromdownwest

Do your successful businesses provide a luxurious pension to the employees?

Or just you?

Jaxhog · 22/06/2022 11:42

I'm sure they all believe they deserve it. But this will have to be paid for by the rest of us through taxes. Why should we go without? Inflation pain has to be shared.

Callingoccupants · 22/06/2022 11:42

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:40

@fromdownwest

Do your successful businesses provide a luxurious pension to the employees?

Or just you?

I'm ex public sector, paid by agencies. I had an inside view about salaries and pension schemes.

fromdownwest · 22/06/2022 11:43

Topgub · 22/06/2022 11:37

@fromdownwest

How bitter are you? Dear me.

I'd rather my tax money paid a nurses pension than fund a business owners.

Your blinkered adoration of the public sector is very impressive. Can you not see, that the multi million pound business, pays a dividend to the pension holder.

You are not paying for their pension, the company does that, from profits it dervies from selling a good or service. If you don't want to fund Apple, don't buy apple, it is simple. You have a choice as to whether you wish to contribute to the profit margin of a company.

However, your desire for companies not to make a profit, may reduce a pensioners income from £800 a month to £400 a month. You ok with that? As long as you and your collegues still have your index linked, guaranteed pensions for life. Not all business owners are multi millionares!