Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

Where have you read this @stickershock I agree it’s terrible and I’m a long term NHS employee. I’ve worked out that with my length of service I’d probably be on around £40k if increases had kept up with inflation. As it is, I’m in £31.5k, plus of course all the money I’ve missed out on. Thousands of pounds I’d imagine. It’s OK, they can just give our cash to the big wigs, we don’t care 🤷‍♀️ 😡

Not that great?

• index linked, guaranteed income for life with 50% spousal benefit and no direct link to the falling markets. 9% is peanuts compared to the other 23% + the tax payer puts in to the pot.

Try being a pensioner with a dc scheme who has just seen their pots fall by 20% in the last 6 months. Then you will realise what ‘not that great’ is.

Look at the alternatives before stating it’s not good, because it is.

People on this thread need to give their heads a wobble and they are totally clueless. There is a huge retention crisis in the public sector. The pensions? Laughable. As my husband said, a decent contribution of a crap salary is still a crap deal.

He was on 40k ish in the military, a specialist in his field. He left and is now into six figures. Amazing pension, better than the public sector. 20% bonus on top and 20% salary increase this year. Private healthcare and all the rest of it.

The pensions are crap. The issue the public sector now has is it can’t put teachers in classes, nurses on wards and all the actual talent in other fields, they are leaving.

The pensions are crap

comparatively, no they aren't.

if you compared where he'd be with same contributions in a DC you'd see that.

Pension provision is really expensive to fund. You need a pot of hundreds of thousands for any decent kind of income in retirement. Good luck with that with employee contributions of 3%.

Do you work in a job with comparable education, training and skills as the public sector professions? If not then this is an unfair comparison.

By the standard of comparable jobs the pay and benefits package is not that great. And therefore will not attract the right people (or indeed anyone).

@fromdownwest

Do you work in the public sector?

How many of you that are moaning that public sector pensions are too good are actively campaigning to improve oension contributions from private sector employers?

He will be fine with contributions of 12 % on 6 figures. Thanks though.

We contribute 9%

And again: are you in a comparable field? Below is a screenshot from an advert up on TES for a main scale teacher at a private school. The salary is negotiable (but competitive) and there is a huge benefits package. It is by far more attractive than a main scale job in a public sector school. Which one do you think a new teacher will pick?

@BalloonsAndWhistles , read what?

And again: are you in a comparable field? Below is a screenshot from an advert up on TES for a main scale teacher at a private school. The salary is negotiable (but competitive) and there is a huge benefits package. It is by far more attractive than a main scale job in a public sector school. Which one do you think a new teacher will pick?

But that job has access to the teacher's pension scheme. The divide between public/private in schools isn't as clear cut as other sectors as some public funding and benefits apply. Wasn't there huge rumpus recently when they tried to kick private teachers out of that scheme? But yes, if you can get that go for it, it's just not an option in the vast, vast majority of sectors.

He will be fine with contributions of 12 % on 6 figures. Thanks though

And how many will get that? A tiny proportion. Even at that, assuming 100k, that's 12,000 a year, which sounds like a lot, but given that you need about 350,000 in your pot for 20k a year income, its not nearly as good as you might think on first glance. That's 30 years of contributions to achieve that, and how many people are 30 years on 6 figures? Of course there will be private contributions to factor in, but even so. Decent pots are tough to save for.

How many of you that are moaning that public sector pensions are too good are actively campaigning to improve oension contributions from private sector employers?

What do you suggest? I notice you mentioned striking earlier in the thread, but I can't even begin to understand how private sector workers strike in a way that would be effective.

Everyone I know private or public sector is getting between 0 and 5%.

Bit of a chicken and egg wages go up so cost go up prices and tax goes up to pay for extra costs.

The quality or otherwise of the pension is irrelevant for the increasing number of public sector staff - now around 30% - who are having to make the choice to opt out of the scheme to pay bills in the here and now.

Aren't the rail workers private sector?

Don't vote tory?

If you dont have the answers I'm not sure why you'd think I would.

Or why those in the public sector should be punished for the actions of those in the private.

Look at the highest earners before you come after lower earners in either sector

Jesus, talk about milking the cow dead. We are all under massive financial strain and everyone’s demanding double digit pay rises “or else”.

I think I’m done with this bullshit TBH. I think I’m just going to pull up the plank on my own clan. No more direct debits out my account, shop in Aldi and no more spending. I can’t be doing with listening to people who are inflicting misery on the rest of us who are just getting on with it.

Aren't the rail workers private sector?

I presume because they used to be public they have some legacy stuff like unions still going on. That's just one sector however, I have no idea how it would work in mine, which is entirely ununionised and mostly small businesses.

Don't vote tory?

I don't

If you dont have the answers I'm not sure why you'd think I would. Or why those in the public sector should be punished for the actions of those in the private.

How are the public sector being 'punished' for private sector actions?

Look at the highest earners before you come after lower earners in either sector

I don't think I'm 'coming after' anyone

Yes. I agree @ElbowGreaseLightning

I’ve really had enough.

I know we already had mass demands with lockdowns now this

@TheKeatingFive

So what's your point then?

Why are you going on about how good public sector pensions are? They're good in comparison to the worst private sector pensions. So what?

They still don't amount to a decent wage for what the majority in the public sector do. Or make up for the working conditions for most.

They're not helping the recruitment and retention crisis.

And it's not public sector workers or pensions that have caused this.

Its decades of wealth inequality and a decade of tory austerity after a recession the wealthiest caused and were bailed out of, topped by a pandemic and another war.

So yeah. I dont give a shit if public sector pensions are better than the worst private sector ones.

I care that billionaires made more money than ever in the last 2 years and I'm sat here being told that I need to such it up because we can't afford a pay rise?

Fuck off

‘Public sector’ gets lumped together, but it differs greatly. I spent a few years pre retirement in a Local Authority. I’m not professionally qualified, spent most of my working life in admin and customer service roles. I found lots of inflated salaries, long time servers (some of whom wouldn’t get more than minimum wage in the private sector), and far too many unnecessary layers of supervision and management.

Although the final salary pension scheme is no longer open, the current scheme is based on career average earnings, and guaranteed, so easily beats most private pensions. Good holiday entitlement and sick pay too. Cheers council tax payers!

If I was a highly qualified professional in IT or law for instance, I’d quite possibly be worse off in a council job, but for the less skilled, its a great choice.

No

@fromdownwest

Why not? You seem desperate to get the pension?

@Seymour5

Shouldn't everyone have the opportunity to be paid reasonably well, with good sick pay and holidays and be able to save for retirement?

Shouldn't we be asking why its not offered to the lowest paid in the private sector whilst those at the top are making millions and billions and trillions?

Do I? Or am I stating that the people complaining that their PS pensions are not great, are factually incorrect when comparing to the average DC pension scheme in the private sector.

One is able to have an opinion on another group without being, or wanting to be a member of said group.

If you are so mad at the limitations of the public sector, then come join the private sector if it is such an oasis of wealth and prosperity.