Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

However, how will the govt justify a 22% increase for the junior doctors and 3% for nurses?

The "right" level of pay is the one that causes there to be enough staff. Unless nurses and doctors are competing for the same jobs, there isn't any reason why the pay (or pay increases) of one should have any relation to the pay (or pay increases) of the other.

If you don’t know the answer to this, you don’t understand how the economy works and nothing anyone says will make any sense to you.

I got 3.5% - I'm already low paid charity sector. I don't see how we can afford public sector wages to increase without putting up taxes i and can't afford to pay more taxes! It's tough but it's the same for everyone. We need to ride out this period caused mostly by international factors and then can give pay settlements to adjust for the longer term pay restraint over the last decade. Resentment will be very high if public sector workers cause the rest of us to be poorer - we worked through the pandemic too being key workers!

@sst1234

Is there ny evidence that constant growth economics works or is sustainable (even if we ignore the environmental impact)

Why do companies need billions and trillions in profits?

Grossly irresponsible to strike at such a time. Public sector pensions are also the best out there. Nothing but pure greed, from unions, as usual. You will get plenty of faenong over in here though.

*fawning

Here we go ....

Most public sector pensions are 15-16% contributions each month from your salary. Quite a lot can't afford to do this.

Most public sector pensions are 15-16% contributions each month from your salary. Quite a lot can't afford to do this.

Those contributions result in much higher end provision than direct contribution schemes available elsewhere for the same money invested.

Pension provision is expensive. There aren't more affordable ways to build up pension pots. Direct benefit pensions are excellent value compared to anything else out there.

Then expect your income tax to increase in direct proportion to wage increases. And petrol prices to stay where they are.

At least Starmer is seeing sense and refusing to support the strikes. Shame he can't have a word with the militants affiliated with his party..

Utter nonsense- They are MASSIVLEY subsidised by the tax payer.
Even a civil servant on £150k plus would only be paying in 8.05% with a tax payer assisted contribution of 30.3%.
An average worker will pay between 4.6% and 5.45% with an Employer contribution of 26.6 - 27.9%

Teachers range from 7.3 % to 11.7%
LGPS is less than 7% up to £48k with it maxing out at 12.5% over £170k

So, if you are going to throw numbers around, make them accurate.

Compare that to the legal requirement of 3% / 5 % split in the private sector, then you will see what are un affordable

I'm saying the private sector might be more (I doubt it on most cases) but the conditions and rights are massively different.

*might pay more

I agree with the divide and rule comment. Essentially anyone daring to complain is lined up as a target for anyone who isn't.

The issue isn't wages it is the wages/cost of living gap - across the board, not just public sector. Whilst we're all busy arguing the toss over 1% vs 3% (so pay cuts for everyone) the issue is not being addressed.

The reason there are real terms pay cuts is that there are real term price rises. We need to address the whole picture not waste our energy infighting. This is something our government should be doing on our behalf, we should be asking why aren't they?

You could always apply for a job and get access to the pension scheme.

I know this thread will descend into a pointless public vs private sector bun fight which is a shame, plus nobody really cares about what we all individually get paid anyway.

Wages have stagnated for years for everyone. Even if you are in the private sector, it might be in your best interest for strike action and public sector wages to rise. If nobody strikes and says that stagnating wages, inflation, overvalued house prices and not dealing with cost of living issues is unacceptable, then everything will stay the same. If the public sector is paid well and people move from private to public sector, chances are private sector wages need to compete.

There really is no point in battling between each other, when we could all coordinate ourselves in a way where it is a win situation for everyone.

I would be striking if it came to it, yes. It is not just about wages to me, but the whole management of the economy and public services (and the cuts to services, pay and funding to reduce a deficit that got much, much bigger instead 🤔), so I will add to the pressure on the government where I can.

The issue isn't wages it is the wages/cost of living gap - across the board, not just public sector.

This is the reality of living in an inflationary spiral however.

I don't think it's realistic to expect to be shielded from it to a significant degree. It's shit, but periods of economic shit do happen.

There are multiple reasons for the spiral, they're global and much of them are connected to the aftermath of covid and the war. A long period of low interest rates is also part of it.

Rising interest rates and the global situation stabilising will help get on top of this in time. But it's a tricky one for government, there aren't easy fixes.

If nobody strikes and says that stagnating wages, inflation, overvalued house prices and not dealing with cost of living issues is unacceptable

If the public sector get pay rises in level with inflation, that's only going to make inflation worse. So no, not in the interests of those employed by the private sector at all. Or anyone really.

I do feel that it's a good time to address the fundamental issues around housing and nhs provision. Both of those need serious overhauls and making progress here would be a very good outcome while waiting for the global situation to stabilise.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the public sector shouldn't get pay rises. What I'm saying is that pay rises of 20% or so would make a bad inflationary situation even worse.

Great point. They love the infighting as our attention is turned towards each rather than directed at them. I can't believe some people are oblivious to this tactic, however I think most people are not falling for the divide and rule trick now and all eyes are on the government to act now.

I'm sure there will be people along with the 'at least we aren't down coal mines now, so we should be grateful' rubbish soon.

If that is the case, why did MP's recently get a pay rise? Maybe they should give up their lucrative second jobs and reduce money supply too. They need the extra money less than us I'm sure.

The whole Andrew Bailey and MP's saying this is purely about public sector pay squeezing again. Didn't Boris say he wanted a high wage, high skilled economy not so long ago? It doesn't add up.

There are two issues as I see it.

We all need to be poorer. The country has been living above it's means, and the days of reckoning have come.

Plus which, as a country, we allow the richer to be come richer. Along with corporations as well. They all bleed us all dry.
But this country worships the mega rich. Celebrities and the like.

Junior doctors were absolutely shafted by Jeremy Hunt - they work ludicrous hours (60-80 per week as standard) for shit pay (compared to other graduate jobs). Starting salary is £29k after 5-6 years of university, and they have to pay for their own exams, training and insurance (£000s each year).

No wonder so many leave and join pharmaceutical companies or move to NZ/Oz for 3-4 times the money and much shorter hours (as well as far more sociable hours).

They'll never get 22%, but they ought to.

22%
That's ridiculous.