AIBU partner hoarding

[Alana1983]

My partner has a problem with hoarding. We've lived together for several years and have children. His hoarding is confined mostly to the garage, shed/outbuilding the spare bedroom and his office. It's bad. Like space to the desk bad, boxes as high as my head bad. Every surface/space filled with 'stuff'

i suppose I feel like I've been tolerant for all these years and have tried and tried to get him to see that it has a knock on effect but we are falling out more and more because the longer it goes on, the worse it is as obviously he adds to it and won't throw things away.

i do the majority of the buying so I buy most of his clothes for example, he isn't really a shopper so when we got together I 'kitted' him out in new clothes but he's kept all his old ones. He has jackets that are 20 years old and 3 sizes too big. Literally saves everything. You know. Just in case. When we moved he just moved in with chests of drawers full of clothes/stuff that I he can't access as there are boxes/bags piled up in front of so I'm talking years of untouched things and I feel it's weighing down on me. Inevitably it does impact on us because occasionally his stuff migrates into other rooms. Tools appear in the house, books from his college course 20 years ago and he no longer even works in that field. Old shoes, clothes. He retains things that have a place within the house. So for example paper and stationary, wrapping paper, cards he bought for his family members that have since passed away (I suppose I understand that one) but he keeps all this clutter in his 'spaces' when there are allocated areas for this type of thing. He sees things as his and mine. So that's my pen. That's my cello tape. He still refers to his cups or bowls, or pans, when we merged our houses 10 years ago.

He retains things that are many years old and rarely replaces things but when he does, he keeps the old ones so we have old hifis, TVs, old tents when we've replaced our some years ago, you name it, we have it. Old washers in the garage. Bikes that both kids have grown out of.

i am the buyer and I spend and also tend to throw/give a lot away, my stuff, the kids etc as I have to feel like I'm helping to reduce the clutter somehow but I can't even touch anything that belongs to him. His anger when I have gone into the room(s) or touched his stuff is unbelievable. He completely loses control and he is mostly a really calm, placid person. But I can no longer speak to him as he says I'm trying to control him and I'm just trying to take back what I think is the control that his problem has over the both of us.

i work in mental health so absolutely recognise that this is a serious problem for him but I'm so angry that he won't accept help I just don't know what to do anymore, other than leave. He can never find anything so jobs don't get done or get half done as he can't find this or whatever.

Every 6 months this comes up and I say I've had enough and he says he'll get help and I recognise a pattern in which I see myself as the victim of his behaviours but it's hard not to have empathy for him when I understand for him it's an absolute compulsion. But how long must I put up with it when it makes me so
miserable?

So, AIBU to leave and break up my family over an overwhelming sadness that I can no longer cope with this life?

It is the only way I can see of taking back control of my own space, mental health and destiny.

I can tell you how it affects the children, my mother was (is) a hoarder. Worse than your DH, their entire house is full, mostly with old clothes picked up from jumble sales and wherever. It started after she lost a child, but I think she had mental health issues before then - I was too young to notice at the time. From then on she started to surround herself with stuff, slowly filling up cupboards and shelves, then buying furniture, then making more piles. Then the piles started up the stairs leaving a small channel to walk in. Eventually all the rooms in the house were full - the spare room floor to ceiling and completely closed off. No floor space, you have to walk over piles of clothes. The garage is full, the summerhouse in the garden is full, the garden is overgrown to keep the world out. Even the car boot is full! Me and my siblings left before it got this bad, but were not welcome back home. Partners/spouses were never invited round. When we were growing up we weren't allowed friends round, because she was embarrassed. We had to go to their houses, and I felt bad because I could never return the favour. It wasn't allowed to be mentioned, we weren't allowed to complain at her for having so much stuff. Gradually she made us feel even more unwelcome and now neither she nor my father bother to call us. We feel unwanted. We only talk if I bother to phone, and haven't seen each other in years. I very rarely phone as I've had enough of feeling bad and being the only one making an effort. Now it's just birthdays and Christmas. Once they didn't even bother to phone me on my birthday, and a while back I had a big birthday and got just a card, no present. I'd previously organised the odd meal, sent flowers and presents, and it's all...unwanted. To say it's deeply hurtful is an understatement. I see people happy with their families, they talk, banter, have fun days out. None of that for us siblings. We've all just given up really and yes we do feel guilty about it. So yes even if the children say nothing they are being affected by it, it's deeply hurtful. It's worse at Christmas time when all the movies are about family values, and the family coming first. When you have a dysfunctional family it's really painful to have this (false for us) message driven home at you. So the net result was that she lost all of her children.

Mathanxiety is asking the right questions. there is something that's being buried/replaced with relationships with things. It is actually him that needs to find the root cause, but it's hard without help, and actually being able to speak about you're own worthlessness openly.

That he has managed to not bring much from his parents home and has cleared it out is a really good sign, but he will be going through grief over that and all that it stands for.

If I could write a simple answer to your question, I'd be rich. I can't tell you much without listening to him I'm afraid.
There isn't a one size fits all solution, but there are some basics that start with the premise of do no harm, and be trustworthy.

When I've gone into other hoarders homes, it's been on the basis that I'm there to organize and I'm not there to throw out things.
You have to be able to do that before you can be any use and build a situation where things can be chucked.
Treating all rubbish as something the owner might actually want and care about and letting them tell you what is and isn't wanted is the starting point of process.

For those asking, parents were wonderful, warm, loving people, obviously I didn't know him as a child but I would suggest he was quite spoiled, certainly compared to my childhood anyway which is where my issue with spoiling my children comes from - the classic I didn't have but want my children to have so I overcompensate, so that's how I show my love and that's where buying things for my partner comes from. I tend to see things and I think he will like that and then I'll get it for him. We don't buy for birthdays etc or Christmas but I do pick up things for him like I said in sales or whatever throughout the year - i would say that most of the things he has acquired in the time we have spent together have been purchased by me and the thing he tends to worry about when we have discussed splitting up - because we have - is what will happen to 'his' things. He seems to think that any gifts I have bought for him I will take with me and he'll be without necessities and for some reason this is the reason he gives for keeping hold of older things - in case we ever break up. So we had two kettles, two toasters etc and essentially what we did is weigh up who's or what was better and if it was his, I'd get rid of mine. If it was mine, he'd put his to one side. In the early days we almost laughed about it.

My threatening to leave doesn't help him to feel secure and I am sad that he feels insecure and that I feed that insecurity - I wish I didn't - but I do mean it when I say I feel like a break up is in our future because when people say where do you see yourselves in 5 years, the truth is that it's where we are now with largely the same issues.

i know that there are things I need to work on also, such as the buying and the turn around of stuff so in comparison to his hoarding I am on the opposite end of the scale which infuriates him - I hold very little value in personal belongings so i buy things for the children and then when they grown out of them or whatever I get rid of them quite flippantly, and I know this bothers him. I'll give to charity etc and as I work for SS I know of lots of local charities happy to take things to be rehomed so will take stuff there.

I have learned to throw things away when he isn't in. My things or the kids. I gave those examples as examples of how bad it's been or can be but not exclusive as to how things are now as there are strategies I've used to get things by him.

We have also done car boots in the past but he's contributed very little to the sell pile, it's usually the kids stuff and he's happy to help them sell things for their own pocket money etc but he also encourages them to save things for their own memories as he said nostalgia is good for you as you age so he encourages special toys or books etc to be saved etc:

i have had some great advice on here such as take photos of belongings etc, that might help him.

also didn't know that buying for him fed his addiction and I'm really interested in what Elleherd has to say about my treatment of him and I guess the lack of understanding feeding the feeling of shame within himself.

i hadnt considered the charity, I will now though.

I know this isn't helpful, but I'm not sure how much you can be the primary helper at this stage, because you're emotionally involved, and even if you put your best 'professional' hat on, you'll push each others buttons.
You become potential genuine help when he gets to the stage where he is able to start dealing with the symptoms, which generally happens after acceptance that there's an actual problem. I have seen it work starting with the stuff as a problem, unearthing that it's really the symptom, then getting back to dealing with the stuff, but it's quite tortuous.

Does he know he has a problem, outside of you being unhappy with the stuff?
I.e. does he generally accept with you (even if highly defensively) that he has difficulty letting go, and a tendency to overstock 'bargains?'

Can I make it really clear re 'your treatment of him' you have just acted within your own external understanding of a really complex situation that is poorly understood including by the professionals.
Whatever has happened to him, he's clearly deeply deeply insecure and expects to be abandoned. (I inevitably relate to that having come from a very difficult situation that no sane person could have developed security in.) Every ounce of judgement will re-enforce that's what he deserves.

One thing you might find useful is to go onto hoarding forums and talk to hoarders who are able to talk about it. Two issues with it though - one is make sure you don't leave him unable to go onto them fearing pouring his heart out in front of you. Don't be hurt that he isn't ready to, it has nothing to do with love.

The other issue is some of the people you may 'meet' may be extreme. I have had to recognize that many of us who have HD may be extreme personalities, though many of us are actually painfully ordinary apart from the wretched condition we have. It's the same when you watch hoarding programs, you're left thinking hang on, that behavior is way past anything I do, but in the end you realize it's just the extreme end combined with personalities, and staged interventions to push for drama.

I'm sorry to say my experience of hoarding uk isn't that good, but that's as someone with the condition seeking help, not a relative seeking support They may be far better at that side of things.

I suggest you look very hard at them and other charities before handing over money. It is an industry, and while there can be very genuine intent, sometimes the reality can be a lot smaller and more profile focused, than first appearances suggest. There are also a number of paid for services, who just aren't what they say they are, but will tell you what you want to hear to be able to charge for it.
I don't know what area of SS you're involved in, but if you put that hat on and think about it you'll know it's not unusual when a service industry springs up around difficult situations.

No. Just no. That is way too much of a burden for you and your children to carry. Do the only right thing and leave.

Not sure whether to post this, as hoarding is hard to understand even by hoarders themselves.

OP I get where your DH is coming from with things being tangible. When I touch items in my Stuff, I can remember what I was doing, how I felt, who I was with. I can pick up a children's book and remember which child liked it best and how it felt to read it with them.

If someone else were to clear it out, I would feel like they thought I was worthless and they wanted to destroy me because I wasn't worth looking after. Photos don't work except to remind me what I have lost. I need to feel and smell and touch.

It's linked to a massive sense of loss. I know what that loss is, and nothing anyone says can make me feel whole. I can picture how beautiful this house could look if I weren't here, and I have screeshots of the neighbours' houses from when they were on the market and beautifully staged but nothing gets me to the point of clearing it.

PPs have mentioned how they dread sorting their parents' houses when the time comes. I've sorted and labelled every inch of storage and cupboards. It's the best I can do withhout professional help. And I keep it all tidy and clean. Shelved. I hope they don't hate me when I die. I don't buy anything now except food and groceries.

A person’s hoard is like their security blanket. You can’t just take it away.

I actually recommend the Marie Kondo book or TV shows. She has a way of thinking about things as important, thanking them for their service and letting them go. Maybe he would read her book?

OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. I am the child of a hoarder and it just sucks all around, for everyone involved.

As a child, I have tried everything to help my parent - going round to help out with sorting things when asked, leaving them alone to do it in their own time, sharing links to charities who can help, encouraging, supporting, cajoling, getting angry, bargaining. You name it, I've done it! I wish I could say that any of it has worked but in truth, while there have been incremental improvements over the years, the situation remains largely unchanged. It makes me extremely sad.

I'm sure you know this but hoarding is a complex mental illness. People think it's just about keeping stuff and needing to declutter (Hence all the comments from people about getting a skip or just taking stuff to the charity shop) but it's so much more complicated than that. It can have ties to grief, depression, ADHD, OCD, executive dysfunction, addiction etc. and those issues need to be identified and dealth with first before the hoarding can be addressed. Unfortunately, if the hoarder doesn't acknowledge the extent of their problem then there is very little you can do to fix the issue as an outsider.

If you stay, you should be prepared that things may never change and may in fact get worse over time.

Thank you all.

I just wanted to update a little.

After the drama of yesterday, as I said he started sorting things out and there are boxes all over etc, I spoke with him last night but from a slightly different angle. He got defensive and he feels i am moving goalposts such as I've said before if it's confined to his spaces I can ignore it, which I've tried to do and we are back here.

I have explained that this has been going on for years and that he's misunderstanding my motives, my main goal is to seek organisation and that I do appreciate the value in nostalgia.

I hugged him and told him that he is incredibly lucky to have had the wonderful childhood he had, surrounded by people who adored him and that I'm sorry that those people are no longer here, that my childhood experience wasn't marred in experiences or activities or in physical things and that my childhood is firmly in my memory alone as I have nothing from mine, only a handful of photographs, very few.

I told him that I'm sad that he doesn't feel that way now, that I'm sorry I've contributed to him feeling insecure and that I do not want to leave, but I do not want to live like this and that I've offered to help him and he thinks that means I want to throw his things away and I don't, I've agreed he can keep whatever he wants and I won't weigh in on that but that I want him to be more organised and to utilise the spaces properly, so for example bring things that belong in the house into our space and then utilise the garage/outhouse and loft appropriately.

I feel like with the right support he will gradually let things go. Like others have touched upon, him clearing his parents property saw him bring very few things here and he told me last night that he found that really difficult but he knew I'd be angry if he started bringing junk here.

I feel sad that he did that alone without any help even though I did offer but it's something he needed to do himself, as others have said to touch, see and smell things I guess.

I feel apprehensive because the reality is I just want to get my hands on the stuff and organise it so that we can at least find things.

i have said he can touch and see everything and we won't get rid of anything without his consent or knowledge and he has said he prefers to do it himself and he won't go with my suggestion of pulling everything out - he said it's completely overwhelming so I'm not sure it's exactly as I wanted but it's a start and he has ordered a new wheel for his trailer so that he can do some tip runs when the time is right.

He knows that he doesn't want our children to have to sort his stuff out and he remembers quite vividly that his dad cleared things out when he was around 50, saying I don't want you to have to do it.

i am also going to stop buying for him, and try and show him love in different ways. He feels that I've been angry at him and he's drowning under the weight of that and I've rood him that I am angry and frustrated but that I know he can't help it so we just need to communicate better.

I feel more positive and want to say thank you to those that helped me gain perspective ❤️

Ah, you sound very in love with him. He's very lucky. You're showing him a huge kindness in the face of extreme difficulty.

He needs to reciprocate though, doesn't he? And I think that has to be the basis of your next conversation. You've told him that you understand, that you'll help. That you won't bulldoze through his feelings by touching his stuff.

Now he needs to see that he's bulldozing through your feelings by keeping it all.

One thing that stood out for me in your initial post is that there are old appliances being stored.

This is daft and different to old clothes and sentimental items (and even items people who don't hoard wouldn't think of as sentimental which I think we can all try and understand as sentimental). So I'd start with those. They take up an enormous amount of space and are literally dragging you down.

I'd ask that he considers tackling that kind of thing first. Imagine if a washing machine and a tumble drier were gone. The space they'd unlock.

In our local authority l, you can book a bulky kerbside collection. You tell them there's one washing machine and one tumble drier, they tell you which day to leave it out and they collect it. No waiting for a trailer to be fixed for a tip run.

In that vein, he could try a system of say red, amber, green.

Red, not ready to think about, don't touch, off limits.

Amber: I see that this could be got rid of (old sleeping bags perhaps, that have been replaced already) but my heart is telling me to keep. But I can see that I can at least consider it going.

Green: I see that this is daft. The old washing machine takes up too much space and is endangering the rest of my hoard. I also see that we're never going to have use for it. It can go. Even though it hurts.

And I'd frame it like that. I get that this stuff is precious to you but there's so much now, that I'm suffering and the children are suffering. I'm not suggesting you go from all of this stuff to none. I'm suggesting that some of it is making it hard for me to be kind about the stuff that's truly important to you. So let's start ranking it and dealing with the green stuff, so that you can keep without question the red stuff. The only catch is, you do need to deem l some stuff as green. And I suggest that's the biggest stuff that's least likely to have the sentimental value.

He has to see the impact on you and the children,just as you have seen it's an illness for him. This isn't a one way street and he needs to concede some ground.

Good luck. None of this is going to be easy.

I'm very sentimental too. In clearing my parents and grandparents things, and now trying to give up even more as I minimalize, I've found that taking photos helps.

One has the memory prompt without having to store the actual item. Photographing and scanning.

Can you set up a system to record digital images as he parts with things?

Alana, well done!
It doesn’t fix the problem or the symptoms of it, but what you’ve done is opened up a potentially two-way conversation. It’s important this doesn’t slide, but equally important that it doesn’t become something that feels like being got at and controlled. (and more 'goal post shifting')

He may well need controlling in many people’s minds, but if you want him to genuinely overcome all this, it’s him that has to control it until he’s able to give up some of the control. That usually happens either through desperation which often means those maladaptive behaviors just move elsewhere, or through learning about the disorder/self and recovery.

You both need whatever real help you can muster to get this to work. I'd suggest you both read as much as you can, but be cautious of the industry 'celebrities' (exception to Jasmin Harman's 'my hoarder mum and me') and the industry around it all.
So many have some idea, (and sometimes some interesting ideas) but are dangerously naive about the consequences.of applying what worked on some as being a solution for all.

I started out with Gail Skeletee (and Randy Frost) American - professor and dean of the School of Social Work at Boston University and actually knows their stuff through years of genuine research rather than band-wagoning.

I haven't read this book: www.hachette.co.uk/titles/satwant-singh/overcoming-hoarding/9781472120052/ but know Satwant Singh to be a genuine long term front line UK HD worker, and unusually for me (I avoid acquiring) am going to get it in eternal hope.

Link to what you can read for free that might give you some idea:

www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Overcoming_Hoarding/2YtvCQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Overcoming+Hoarding++by+Satwant+Singh%09++by+Margaret+Hooper%09++by+Colin+Jones&printsec=frontcover

He feels that I've been angry at him and he's drowning under the weight of that
I drown under the weight of other people’s feelings about my inadequacies. Despite my surface behavior appearing to go in the other direction, in my head others and their feelings are much more important than I am. Perhaps that's why the stuff is so important to me, because I'm not.

I can’t say much because apparently if I wasn’t the way I am others wouldn’t be the way they are. Since childhood I have found myself allocated the role of being the root cause of everyone else’s problems. (We don't talk about the big positives I've done for others in adulthood - only what they gained gets mentioned)
It’s very common and very destructive.

This is hard for me to write and my family still have no idea of the fuller part of what I intended.
I realized how much and just how ill I was after putting together and actioning a big part of a practical plan to have everything of mine and things I was hanging onto from our past, removed while they were away. That plan involved getting it all into storage and getting them to look and take back anything they wanted to keep for themselves.

Once that was done the plan was to pre organise and pay for a company to take everything else to the dump on a set date.

What I've never told them is then I could take myself away, and quietly end my life, and make it look like a co-incidental accident, before the dumping happened.

I knew it was total cowardice, but found I just couldn’t deal with the destruction of everything and knew it was destroying me and I was going to be ending my life afterwards, with them forced to connect what was behind it, messing them up further.
Yet again I was the damaging factor for others. So why not do it all cleanly and with minimal pain to all of us and leave them with a better narrative?

It seemed like a sensible and fair solution to everyone’s problems at the time. (Although they actually did something that stopped me in my tracks, sadly, I still suspect it would actually have been better for everyone if I had.)

You clearly don't have the keeping gene, but be careful of him seeing himself as just disposable stuff too. Because that needing to keep stuff for a future could be him holding onto any future, and this really is a very insidious illness and that assumption he needs stuff to be able to have a life when you/his family is done with him, does ring some alarm bells about his current thought processes, here.

BTW despite all I've said about the condition, I voted YANBU to feel as you do.