AIBU partner hoarding

[Alana1983]

My partner has a problem with hoarding. We've lived together for several years and have children. His hoarding is confined mostly to the garage, shed/outbuilding the spare bedroom and his office. It's bad. Like space to the desk bad, boxes as high as my head bad. Every surface/space filled with 'stuff'

i suppose I feel like I've been tolerant for all these years and have tried and tried to get him to see that it has a knock on effect but we are falling out more and more because the longer it goes on, the worse it is as obviously he adds to it and won't throw things away.

i do the majority of the buying so I buy most of his clothes for example, he isn't really a shopper so when we got together I 'kitted' him out in new clothes but he's kept all his old ones. He has jackets that are 20 years old and 3 sizes too big. Literally saves everything. You know. Just in case. When we moved he just moved in with chests of drawers full of clothes/stuff that I he can't access as there are boxes/bags piled up in front of so I'm talking years of untouched things and I feel it's weighing down on me. Inevitably it does impact on us because occasionally his stuff migrates into other rooms. Tools appear in the house, books from his college course 20 years ago and he no longer even works in that field. Old shoes, clothes. He retains things that have a place within the house. So for example paper and stationary, wrapping paper, cards he bought for his family members that have since passed away (I suppose I understand that one) but he keeps all this clutter in his 'spaces' when there are allocated areas for this type of thing. He sees things as his and mine. So that's my pen. That's my cello tape. He still refers to his cups or bowls, or pans, when we merged our houses 10 years ago.

He retains things that are many years old and rarely replaces things but when he does, he keeps the old ones so we have old hifis, TVs, old tents when we've replaced our some years ago, you name it, we have it. Old washers in the garage. Bikes that both kids have grown out of.

i am the buyer and I spend and also tend to throw/give a lot away, my stuff, the kids etc as I have to feel like I'm helping to reduce the clutter somehow but I can't even touch anything that belongs to him. His anger when I have gone into the room(s) or touched his stuff is unbelievable. He completely loses control and he is mostly a really calm, placid person. But I can no longer speak to him as he says I'm trying to control him and I'm just trying to take back what I think is the control that his problem has over the both of us.

i work in mental health so absolutely recognise that this is a serious problem for him but I'm so angry that he won't accept help I just don't know what to do anymore, other than leave. He can never find anything so jobs don't get done or get half done as he can't find this or whatever.

Every 6 months this comes up and I say I've had enough and he says he'll get help and I recognise a pattern in which I see myself as the victim of his behaviours but it's hard not to have empathy for him when I understand for him it's an absolute compulsion. But how long must I put up with it when it makes me so
miserable?

So, AIBU to leave and break up my family over an overwhelming sadness that I can no longer cope with this life?

It is the only way I can see of taking back control of my own space, mental health and destiny.

But the thing is, if something happened to you then your kids will be stuck with this life. You are their only way out. Is this man worth sacrificing their childhood for?

My fil was s hoarder. It drove my mil mad. She used to beg DH and I to day we could really do with X item, so he would gift it to us. Fil was a kind and generous man and was happy to gift an item to us if he thought we needed it. When he passed away mil had to have 9 skips to get rid off all of his old stuff. He used to buy a local newspapers and would never through it away. 1 we hole skip was just old newspapers. Mil seems much happier now. Before she would never invite her friends over now friends drop by all the time.

I mean this really gently OP, but in some respects you are making excuses for him and allowing the situation to perpetuate. Whatever his issues, he doesn’t get a say in whether you throw out an old dress of yours. If you know he will look through the boot, sort when he isn’t around and take it straight to the tip. He won’t ever even know that it’s gone. Same for the kids stuff.

Yes, it’s a mental health issue and yes you can’t fix him, but you can set your own boundaries and apply them without exception. So don’t show pleasure when he’s sorted a couple of boxes, make him put them in the loft and then carry on the sorting. Show pleasure when he’s done a whole room.

It doesn’t sound to me as though you are close to leaving him in reality, so you need to be clear on what is and isn’t acceptable to you and enforce it.

And like I say, I do understand. The link to history and nostalgia is the same for me, I feel like my past is dying when I throw things out. I become overwhelmed with my own mortality. I get it. But it is possible to change.

Woah sister. That's a bit fierce!

OP, I feel really sorry for you all. I think you know you're faced with two options - stay with things as they are or leave him.

Remember, no decision has to be permanent. He's not going to get help ATM. But your leaving might be the change that precipitates more change. Who knows, he might sort things out and you can try again.

Something needs to happen though, doesn't it?

I love entertaining and we do invite friends round but we just keep those doors locked. Over the years I guess it's got worse as I've put his stuff in there as the initial feeling was that it was evolving into other rooms so it frustrates him that he doesn't have 'space' for his stuff but I know that he has ample 'space' as he has the spare room, his office and a garage, shed/outhouse type building so whenever things begin to migrate I open the door and just put things in his rooms out of my mindset and I kept those doors closed. During lockdown for a period of time he was working from home and I think then it was more apparent as I was in and out of his office speaking to him and just being in there bothers me, it's honestly like living with Mr Trebus (if you know, you know)

i honestly don't know what to do. I love him and we have small children but I don't know how to help him. I've tried everything, shouting, begging. I have actually tried once when he was out of town on a training course I cleared some of his old shirts out - I didn't throw them away I just left to one side and tided his wardrobe and that was probably 2/3 years into our relationship and the first time I ever saw him angry, really angry. He pulled several of my things out of the wardrobe and threw them down the stairs. I started crying and he cried too and we talked about it and he said just don't touch my things I've asked you nicely, please don't do it again so I never have. if we are going out I'll help him choose something and occasionally I'll go in there and say Jesus you've had this shirt for years and he'll say yes but it's my favourite and I'll say remember the other one I bought for you and he'll say yeah and I'll say well I replace your things as they are looking tired so if you aren't going to start throwing things away I'll stop replacing them for you (i am a really savvy sales shopper and by his own admission he can't find bargains like me) so eventually he might agree to throw away one shirt and that's a result.

But at the bottom of his wardrobe there will be 20/30 shirts brand new in packets and same with pants, shoes, you name it that he bought before we met or some time since or I have got him and he's not worn yet so he's got all these 'Rainy day' clothes as well. As well as clothes and shoes he's had for 20 years or longer. He's saving them to do the painting in. Or I'll do the garden in them. Or yeah but they're so comfy and the ones you bought me make my feet stink. Or whatever.

he buys toiletries and deodorants, razors and toothbrushes/toothpaste when it's on offer he bulk buys so all of the bathroom cabinets are spilling over with stuff, soaps and handgel and you name it. He buys bottled water and vitamins because he's trying to be healthier but he'll buy again in bulk so you're finding space for them. There's just stuff everywhere really.

he is better than he was but that's because I'm sterner so I bought a new picnic blanket and said I'm throwing this one and he tried to wrestle it off me but I said I paid for it, it's mine and it's going and he said I wanted it to line my boot or something but I said tough titty and threw it. But I can't tell you what that constant conflict is like. If he can't find something; he will accuse me of having lost it or given it away and he will turn the house upside down looking for things, and it could be something as obscure as a particular glass or a particular knife, his favourite water bottle, things like that. It could be in the dishwasher or whatever but he'll create merry hell and stress me out looking for it xx

But it’s your house too, why don’t you have a say in how you want to live? You are making excuses for him. This will get worse with age.

You say that your children don’t seem to notice. You are wrong. They just think this is normal and it’s not.

Get him to rent a storage unit for his stuff

It sounds to me like you are part of the problem if you are buying everything. Stop buying things for him and if it becomes an issue then say that you will only buy a new version if he agrees to get rid of the old one. For the sleeping bags, get rid of the old ones at the same time as you buy new ones. Don't consult him.

If you still want to be with him, can you try living separately at least to give your kids a normal upbringing? He sounds severely into his hoarding and refusing help so there's nothing you can do. Op watch those hoarder programmes, and see what the rest of the family goes through. That is you and will be your children. Ask yourself if you are ok doing that to them. You are placing your feelings for him over what's right for your kids.

Yes I think you are right. I stay as we are or I leave and try to impact change.

I suppose I'm embarrassed to leave, we have friends and family who probably view us as the perfect couple to some extent and probably have no idea we are so close to something as drastic as this over something that they wouldn't even notice as they've never seen these spaces of his, his hoarding does come up in a jokey way as in he doesn't like to throw things away but nobody but me and the kids have ever seen his office or the spare room so I don't think anyone believes for a moment that things are as bad as they are.

His family have some idea as they tried to persuade him after the death of his parents to hire a house clearance firm and he insisted on doing it all himself - surprisingly he bought very little with him after that but ot was a long painful process and I think family were frustrated with him as he was delaying the process of selling the family home

People know op. Those jokes didn't come from nowhere. They most likely were testing to see whether you woulf say anything. But people know. You might not have noticed, but it would be in other parts of your house and people see this.

You need to be serious about leaving but it sounds like ideally you want to help him get help too.

You say he has promised to get help in the past but not gone ahead. I would find alternative living arrangements for 30 days or 60 days from now, pay the deposit and be properly committed to leaving, and tell him if he's not actively getting help you'll be leaving on X date. And then follow through (since you're thinking of doing this anyway). It gives him an opportunity to change but also commits you to leaving if he doesn't seek help, which has happened many times before.

Alternatively, leave now for 3 months and tell him if he doesn't get help and make changes in that time, then it will be a permanent move.

You can't live like this. How much of your house is he occupying?
I think you need to get him to move out!

I am sorry but I don't think you understand hoarding, you can't do it for someone. That seriously impacts their mental health.

What about your mental health, OP?

After your two most recent updates, I would leave him. You aren’t going to be able to drive change, for a number of reasons, and you shouldn’t live like that - and nor should your children.

Can you invent people that you are donating the old sleeping bags, clothes, utensils etc to? As in, Brenda wants some sleeping bags as her son is off to Glastonbury. Or Sheila 's DD is off to university and needs new linen, kettle and crockery..
I also find it helps to go down the tip/charity shop when they are out. If he doesn't see you taking your clothes that no longer fit to the charity shop, he won't miss them.
I find getting rid of a little and often keeps me sane. Last week I threw out a box of belongings that he had in his locker from a job he left 23 years ago. He never knew it was buried under boxes in the shed. Had never looked at it, so won't miss it.

You recognise it as a mental health issue, but unfortunately what are perceived as idle threats are not going to persuade your DH to act.

I think you probably need to leave, even if in your mind there is the possibility of returning if it does prove to be the impetus for him to act.

I strongly suspect you can't change him, OP, all you can choose is your reaction - which may involve separating.

I remember watching a program on which a woman with severe hoarding issues (significantly worse than your partner) was told that she would have to get rid of a lot of her stuff or her children would be taken away - the house was properly unsafe. She chose her stuff over her children, a choice the vast majority of us couldn't begin to fathom. But it shows how strong a grip hoarding can have over people. Unless your partner chooses to seek help, there is little you can do to change him.

I think if she leaves the house, he'll fill it.

Suggest he leaves, and ask him where he'll rent that will cope with the amount of possessions he has.

I know you say you realise it is a fire risk, but it is not just a risk but a reality. A house not far from mine was owned by an older couple, he was a hoarder. Four years ago there was a fire and both of them died as the fire dept couldn't get them out. The fire station is 1/2 mile away and they got there quickly. The grown up kids have not been able to forgive themselves and have demolished the house but kept the land as they are unable to let go of it as both their parents died there.
Please take this very seriously.

Monits not. You do NOT fix a hoarding problem by throwing a hoarders stuff away, they simply replace it and hang on more tightly. You really damage someone mental health with that approach,

@Alana1983 I'm curious that you say you work with hoarders, which part of it all do you do? You say you work in MH, but you don't show a very good understanding if the MH issues involved here.

you casually, part way through the thread, drop this in...

I think it's a problem that has gotten worse with grief as he's recently lost both of his parents

I'm not getting at you because it's a horrible way for a spouse to live, but he needs HELP. Proper help & I'm feeling like you don't really understand that.

YANBU but what a shame to break up over this as you love him and have children together.

What about selling that place (I assume it’s a house) and buying two flats and living separately? He has his hoarder flat (small) and you have a family flat which he is welcome to be in anytime but all his stuff stays at his flat.

I work in the social work but have worked on and off for 15 years in different fields, mental health support worker, housing, youth worker etc so have experience of working with service users with varying degrees of mental health issues.

I know he needs help but if he won't accept it I can't give it. I've honestly tried. He had an assessment 6 months ago with a counsellor but he's on a waiting list but as he has to pay for it, he's now talking himself out of it due to affordability.

for those of you asking about our housing situation, part of the issue is that neither of us could afford to stay here. We'd both have to sell to afford to separate really. I could rent for 6 months which is what I'm thinking of doing, on my worse days but as someone has said the reality is I don't actually want to leave, I want to enforce change

This^^

OP I understand hoarding. I was a terrible hoarder for a long time. It came about through a lack of control but in the end it couldn’t go on.

Someone whose mental illness puts others in danger cannot be pandered to. You cannot keep up the be kind approach because it isn’t kind of him to put your kids, yourself and your home at risk of fire or them of crushing under unstable piles of crap.

What would he do if he came home and one of the rooms was emptied? Would he notice if the oldest stuff was slowly making its way out of the house without anyone mentioning it? I know I didn’t. Once it was in the room it was forgotten about unless it surfaced again. Stuff that never surfaced may not have existed at all.

And why do you keep buying him stuff to add to the hoard? If he’s living in a 20 year old jacket then let him until it falls apart but do not replace it. He’s a grown man and can do that himself.

you’re somewhat enabling his behaviour and that’s not helping anyone. I know it’s hard but you need to do something for your kids and for yourself. Being untidy is one thing but what you describe is well beyond that.

Oops quite fail.