Are the unions being unreasonable to reject 5% pay offer for nhs staff?

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NHS staff in Scotland have been offered a 5% pay rise (excluding doctors and dentists who have a different pay scale)

Most health care worker unions have said its an insulting offer and should he rejected.

They are looking for a 6 - 14% patristic

Yabu - nhs staff have relatively secure jobs with good benefits and should be grateful they are getting any pay rise

Yanbu - nhs staff are extremely under paid and over worked and given the last 2 years absolutely deserve more than 5%

Nhs are struggling so much with staffing levels. Pay more to increase appeal, its a hard job! I feel like 5% is the minimum and should try to get more.

Average UK salary is £24,600. Where are you working in nhs with 2 masters and a doctorate at a band 5??

@IfIhearmumagaintoday I mentioned nursing as I am one so it’s what I know most about. But I think the most obvious role that is stuck at a lower band than it should be is the majority of band 2 HCAs

Will be interesting to see how the unions respond

No they are not. If benefits are going to be raised by inflation (at least 8%) then so should wages.

@lonelyapple

Are they?

I hadn't heard that.

I'm not sure that will go down well

Must be Scotland only. Certainly not seen that for anywhere else.

EcoEcoIA · Yesterday 11:11
"
YANBU. Wage rises will lead to more inflation. If we get into a wage-price spiral then higher interest rates will be needed to bring inflation down. Government borrowing is already too high to be comfortable. Government debt has been increasing to fun QE, even during the so-called period of "austerity", and then even more to pay for the pandemic. A lot government spending will be needed just to pay interest on its loans. We might even have to endure a recession and declining standards of living."

@Eco, you've drunk the Cool Aid. This is utter rubbish.

At my hospital there is a food bank for the staff. Just let that sink in.
A food bank. For staff. FFS. 🤬

The arithmetic is quite simple. As at Thursday inflation is forecast to be 11%. The pay rise offered is 5%. This comes after the best part of three years of no, or very limited rises. My son and sisters all work in the NHS (nurses and doctors) and were keen at the time of "clap for the NHS" that a pay rise was required not us all clapping and so we now see that, again NHS workers will take the hit. For FTSE 100 Directors will we see the same pay restraint? Somehow I doubt it. I think we have a long hard Summer ahead and a really difficult 2023.

Oh and just to add for nurses in particular many are now working at least part time for an agency as they cannot survive on their basic. The upshot is that in some form they are supplied back to the NHS at top dollar, which costs us all more.

@Cyclebabble it's crazy isn't it that staff work within the same trust and people are doing the same exact role as each other and getting different pay rates! Or perhaps a lower band and getting paid a lot more on agency rates.

My sister was complaining its unfair. It is a bit but you can't grudge anyone we are all here to make money!

Tank could you say more why you think this is rubbish, wage spiral, increasing interest rates increasing and huge debt would be problematic

be good to hear why it would be averted

The amount of spending over the pandemic was always risky to me as you have lower resilience when it comes to other events, and unfortunately we got the Ukraine war

Now you can see all these pressures mounting. I wish they had been given greater consideration at the time

It is only Scotland currently I think. The English pay review body was due in May but has yet to report. Basically we need to realise that the NHS is much like any other big industry. You pay the staff their commercial value and give them decent working conditions or they leave and you can't recruit which is the situation we are currently it. Most staff above a Grade 5 are highly educated to degree or masters level as we have to be and we all have transferable skills, private medine is growing and working conditions mean its more attractive. We no longer have european staff who will come and fill the gaps and Band 2 to4 can work more social hours and earn more in Lidle. The country needs to realise that NHS staff are not working for charity and unfortunately the days of vocation trumping pay have gone. If we want an NHS.we will need to match the spending seen in other parts of Europe and have a sensible discussion about staff renumeration and conditions.

I would like to see all public sector pay rises linked and equal - Inc MP's.

I.e. whatever percentage they get, so does everyone else on a state payroll, as a minimum.

I'd also like to see linking between levels of public sector roles and those of elected officials, to include expenses where relevant. I am not averse to mp's and councillors being well paid, but I suspect those two things together would solve a lot of issues all in.

YADNBU.

they deserve more!!!

I agree @ginnybag

It is infuriating seeing relatively well paid MPs and ministers receiving a percentage pay rise that is much higher than that awarded to other public sector workers.

Plus partygate, expenses scandals etc.

They should lead by example and follow the same rules and behaviours that are enforced on the rest of public sector workers.

Today climate this. Today's climate that!!! Is there ever going to be a climate where we pay nurses (degree educated people) and their counterparts I.e dieticians, physios etc a decent wage?

It's ridiculous.

It's going to cost the public much more if they don't increase the pay, there's so many gaps in rotas that you can guarantee regular work from an agency or locuming at an increased pay rate - more staff will shift over an work for agencies to earn a better income for the same job. Meanwhile the NHS is forced to pay the agencies far more than they would then it would of cost to just have the staff working full time with a load of this money just going to a private company whom doesn't really do anything. In london the agencies are making upto £5000 for a single doctor to work one shift! It's just burning money but they have no choice because they don't have enough staff to fill the rotas, the plan to hold back wages and not pay the market rate is beyond stupid - unless of course you also benefit from the insane profits of these private agencies.

news.sky.com/story/hospitals-in-england-paying-up-to-5-200-for-single-agency-doctor-shift-12766529

Ummm I posted this 7 months ago so things have moved on somewhat... After 7 months of toing and froing I've ended up with 5% and some of my colleagues have ended up with even less due to the 'new and improved' Scottish government offer, so what a waste of time that was. Not sure why you quoted me to start a fight, I'm from a household of two NHS workers (one who is a nurse) so I'm obviously in favour of fair pay but actually it's more about the working conditions, recruitment and retention.

No apologies. I didn't quote you to start a fight. What I mean is I'm just so so fed up with the government always having some excuse not to pay public sector workers fairly. If it's not a recession, its a global pandemic blah blah. There's always a reason meanwhile conditions in the NHS for both patients and staff decline further. I support pay but also better conditions for all of us.

You'll have to explain your thinking on inflation.....

What service costs will go UP to pay for any pay rise in the public sector?

We were all hit with 10 to 15% before anyone got a pay rise, inflation is falling despite large pay rises in the private sector.

Only have to look at profits in energy companies to see that corporate greed is driving the current round of inflation... if Shell etc started selling oil/gas at a lower price, everyone would have to follow but they don't they, they keep charging more, same with other commodities its greed.... but when it comes to decommissioning oil rigs, they come to to the tax payer for the money to do this..... another example...take a look at banks? private (huge) profit... public sector losses.

Yes public borrowing is out of control because of policies that take money from the majority and give it to the very wealthy.... e.g the £2bn cost of increasing pension allowances... will that benefit anyone on on here?

Or spending £110bn on a vanity project railway...... or 13 years of almost zero productivity growth and investment/RnD.

These are the real reasons we have a cost of living crisis not because someone on £27k got a £1000 pay rise.

It's going to cost the public much more if they don't increase the pay, there's so many gaps in rotas that you can guarantee regular work from an agency or locuming at an increased pay rate - more staff will shift over an work for agencies to earn a better income for the same job

This! I have just started in a new community team - being staffed by 70% agency staff (A&E nurse who walked out last year and 3 Paramedics) all are being paid far far more than me being employed via NHS. I have my pension though and sick leave which stops me from doing the same. The bank staff are on much more an hour than me yet alone the agency fees.

Looks like they are going for divide and conquer aswell with the offer a new spine for nurses away from other HCP!