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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Pick-Up Artists" in the street - AIBU?

110 replies

nadan · 16/06/2022 14:36

Has anyone ever been targeted by one of these so-called "PUA" because I think I might have been today. This was in High St, Kensington, but also a similar thing happened here a few months ago and possibly also in Hammersmith. Bearing in mind I am 47! They come up and ask if you live locally, so you expect they're going to ask directions or something. But then they start walking with you and it's hard to explain why, but it's hard to get away from them. A 'technique' seems to be to try to find something in common - "like, oh I've just moved to this area too." Then it's waffle to try and strike a rapport.

I just said "sorry I'm late for work' (god knows why I said this because I don't even work). Then they ask what you do... then they do something similar. .. then it's "shall we go for lunch, have you got time?" I just looked at the guy and said "I am 47 years old." I swear to god he was not a day over 35, possibly younger. But he didn't seem at all phased.

AIBU to think this was a PUA and he was 'training?' And maybe someone was filming him? The other alternative was that he was trying to find a desperate local woman who would be delighted to take him home and then he could rob her? There are so many crazy people on the streets and it's getting worse. Anyone else been mystified by this?

OP posts:
CourtneeLuv · 17/06/2022 13:27

CourtneeLuv · 17/06/2022 13:15

they trying to pass some sort of PUA test and there is someone observing or filming to see how far they get after the training?

What does this mean? What scam is this?

Sorry, I read on and have seen now.

Valeriekat · 17/06/2022 15:14

IrisVersicolor · 16/06/2022 22:49

PUAs aren’t really a thing outside MN though, it’s very dated. There are men. There are weird men. There are men who try to pick you up weirdly. Some may have swallowed PUA stuff. The influence on the weird ones is now more porn, Reddit, incel, MGTOW, Jordan Peterson etc.

Except Jordan Peterson is actually trying to do the opposite of what you just said!

CaptSkippy · 17/06/2022 16:10

Valeriekat · 17/06/2022 15:14

Except Jordan Peterson is actually trying to do the opposite of what you just said!

Show quote history

Jordan Peterson may not like porn, but he sure as hell is adored by many men who do and who fall into the MRA category.

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 16:53

"Jordan Peterson may not like porn, but he sure as hell is adored by many men who do and who fall into the MRA category."

This doesn't make JP a problematic harasser of women. When I first read about him on MN, then saw him on TV, I was baffled by the disconnect.

CaptSkippy · 17/06/2022 16:56

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 16:53

"Jordan Peterson may not like porn, but he sure as hell is adored by many men who do and who fall into the MRA category."

This doesn't make JP a problematic harasser of women. When I first read about him on MN, then saw him on TV, I was baffled by the disconnect.

I doubt he is personally harassing women, but he seems to have no qualms in excuses and justifying that kind of bahavior in other men.

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 16:57

CaptSkippy · 17/06/2022 16:56

I doubt he is personally harassing women, but he seems to have no qualms in excuses and justifying that kind of bahavior in other men.

Show quote history

Can you give an example? I have only heard him criticising them.

CaptSkippy · 17/06/2022 17:03

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 16:57

Can you give an example? I have only heard him criticising them.

Show quote history

He was once asked what would be the solution to male violence. He said "enforced monogamy". Although he never defined what that meant, why would you even bring up monogamy in that context?

He also has said repeatedly that women wear makeup to attract men, claims men and women cannot work work together and so on. There were a few other gems, such as women must have children before 35 or they will be miserable and so on.

All these things are indirect excuses for bad behavior of men toward women. They also fall right in line with MRA thinking of how women should behave.

overthinkersanonnymus · 17/06/2022 17:13

This thread is the first time I've ever come across the term pick up artist, I thought men were just weirdos in general!

What do they actually want? Sex? Money?

What's the goal of the course if it's a course they've been on?

CaptSkippy · 17/06/2022 18:23

@overthinkersanonnymus They want sex if they can get it, but otherwise footage of them making women do (usually degrading) things they are either unwilling or reluctant to do.

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 18:26

CaptSkippy thank you, I will look at those.

overthinkers I think the PUAs want sex and arm candy.

SW1amp · 17/06/2022 18:26

My hairdresser was telling me last week that she went to the jubilee thing in central London, and was near Buckingham palace when a bloke started talking to her and her friend, asking questions that made her think he was a tourist

then out of nowhere, he asked if her and the friend wanted to go and have sex with him for the afternoon

she was gobsmacked and just walked away, but a woman overheard and told her that he had done the same to several other woman

She assumed he was just a pervert but maybe he was a wannabe PUA

grim

IrisVersicolor · 17/06/2022 19:10

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Completely missed the point.

I’m not saying the term PUA doesn’t exist outwith MN I’m saying it’s only on MN that women think that a guy who hits on them in a particular way must be a “PUA” subscribing to a particular ideology.

Its sole goal is to objectify women - the ultimate endgame being using them as wank socks - but it's the overall contempt and objectification of them as service humans for men that is the real aim here

As if this went only went back to 2013 not Adam and Eve.

It all sounds painfully naive to me.

Framing it as minimising concerns is complete misinterpretation - not anything I’ve ever said - I’m saying call it for what it is not for what it may well not be.

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 20:22

Iris but PUA used here is short code for "these wankers need to piss off".

better than TWNTPO. Not easy to say. 😂

IrisVersicolor · 17/06/2022 20:46

Innit. 😄

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 22:07

IrisVersicolor · 17/06/2022 20:46

Innit. 😄

😂😂😂

Sapphirensteel · 17/06/2022 22:21

Either put on your poshest English accent and say I’m terribly sorry I don’t speak English …and walk. Throws them every time.
Or learn a few Welsh phrases, I found that worked when hassled in ME.

EmmaH2022 · 17/06/2022 23:18

Sapphirensteel · 17/06/2022 22:21

Either put on your poshest English accent and say I’m terribly sorry I don’t speak English …and walk. Throws them every time.
Or learn a few Welsh phrases, I found that worked when hassled in ME.

That's my one. Except for the Welsh.

Stillfunny · 17/06/2022 23:38

I had this happen to me many years ago in my twenties. Young guy approached me , started walking alongside me , pleasant , well dressed . I was young and dumb and did start to answer him as they seemed innocent questions.

Turned out that he was a Scientologist urging me to take a free Personality test which I now know is a way to recruit members.

Sickening that just walking along leaves you vulnerable to so many predators, whatever their ultimate goal is. And men just do not get this.

SomeCleverUsername · 18/06/2022 07:07

Ohhhhladz · 17/06/2022 03:54

Do you really? I find that being sexually harassed - which is what this thread is about - actually happens much, much more when I look like absolute crap: tired, sick, out in very casual clothes, wet hair, no makeup, on the way home from a workout, etc. Of course there's a lot of misogynist shite all the time, but let's do Occam's Razor here: there are a whole shite tonne of reasons why you get sexually harassed - and geography is a really big factor - but being attractive is really only significant in that you are attractive to predators. That's not - for most women, you certainly may be an exception - a good or welcomed or desirable thing.

Show quote history

Yeah, I've found that attractiveness doesn't have all the bearing on it. Every woman I know well enough to have had a deep and meaningful with has been sexually harassed or assaulted. I did find though that when I was at my slimmest and youngest it was worse though. I have also found wearing my wedding ring reduces it. I know we shouldn't have to adapt our behaviour but I always wear my ring now.

MimosasInFrance · 18/06/2022 07:12

It's definitely a thing in Kensington - I've experienced it several times on Exhibition Road, and also a few times on Oxford Street. It's really unsettling, on one occasion a man shook my hand (I shouldn't have taken it really, but it was instinctive) and then told me he wasn't going to let me go until I told him something I liked about him! I just refuse to engage if stopped by a man on the street now. Urgh

Original poster
nadan · 18/06/2022 09:52

"As if this went only went back to 2013 not Adam and Eve.
It all sounds painfully naive to me."

I think you are missing the point @IrisVersicolor . This is different to being chatted up by random men in the street - yes, this has obviously been happening since the beginning of time and we've all experienced that. But this is different.

To explain the difference - if someone just starts talking to you randomly in the street, you may or may not feel uncomfortable. But either way, you will probably have a sense of whether they are an individual, or working for an organisation or campaign by the type of lines they use and whether you feel some kind of 'technique' is being used on you. Just as organised charity workers are trained in 'opening lines' which get people to stop in the street, these PUA men have paid a lot of money to go on training courses which claim to give them the skills to bamboozle women (who wouldn't normally give them the time if day) so as you get what they want from them. It's a very cynical operation - the 'gurus' claim they understand women better than they know themselves and they have various 'steps' to their programmes. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but if you have a run in with a PUA you will probably know (even if it only dawns on you afterwards).

For instance, what @MimosasInFrance describes above with the man shaking her hand and then 'joking' he was not going to to let go unless she told him something she liked about him. It's unlikely he's thought of that himself. That will be "Base 1" or some such on the course, with some psychological mumbo jumbo about shaking hands being instinctive etc etc. There will be a group of them doing the same thing, up and down the street and they will be being observed and graded on how far they get. Possibly they are also being filmed. Sorry for the essay, but I'm trying to explain the difference.

OP posts:
MimosasInFrance · 18/06/2022 10:05

nadan · 18/06/2022 09:52

"As if this went only went back to 2013 not Adam and Eve.
It all sounds painfully naive to me."

I think you are missing the point @IrisVersicolor . This is different to being chatted up by random men in the street - yes, this has obviously been happening since the beginning of time and we've all experienced that. But this is different.

To explain the difference - if someone just starts talking to you randomly in the street, you may or may not feel uncomfortable. But either way, you will probably have a sense of whether they are an individual, or working for an organisation or campaign by the type of lines they use and whether you feel some kind of 'technique' is being used on you. Just as organised charity workers are trained in 'opening lines' which get people to stop in the street, these PUA men have paid a lot of money to go on training courses which claim to give them the skills to bamboozle women (who wouldn't normally give them the time if day) so as you get what they want from them. It's a very cynical operation - the 'gurus' claim they understand women better than they know themselves and they have various 'steps' to their programmes. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but if you have a run in with a PUA you will probably know (even if it only dawns on you afterwards).

For instance, what @MimosasInFrance describes above with the man shaking her hand and then 'joking' he was not going to to let go unless she told him something she liked about him. It's unlikely he's thought of that himself. That will be "Base 1" or some such on the course, with some psychological mumbo jumbo about shaking hands being instinctive etc etc. There will be a group of them doing the same thing, up and down the street and they will be being observed and graded on how far they get. Possibly they are also being filmed. Sorry for the essay, but I'm trying to explain the difference.

Yep, I've often wondered if there's some sort of training course being run nearby as it happens so often and they all follow exactly the same routine!

I've also been randomly hit on or experienced men being just a bit creepy and it's not the same thing. Hard to describe but it's like they have a script or set of steps?

LooksLikeADuck · 18/06/2022 10:12

I heard a man on public transport asking a woman where she lived. The woman told him. She had just moved from another country. It was off.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 18/06/2022 10:29

Rule of life number 8.

Never speak to someone who is walking in the same direction as you are.

iwishiwasafish · 18/06/2022 10:35

If you look at many of the videos of women getting push under trains, they push these women most of the time when their backs are turned towards their attackers.

Slightly OP, but that is bloody terrifying. This is a thing? “Many videos of women being pushed under trains”???