"Pick-Up Artists" in the street - AIBU?

[nadan]

Has anyone ever been targeted by one of these so-called "PUA" because I think I might have been today. This was in High St, Kensington, but also a similar thing happened here a few months ago and possibly also in Hammersmith. Bearing in mind I am 47! They come up and ask if you live locally, so you expect they're going to ask directions or something. But then they start walking with you and it's hard to explain why, but it's hard to get away from them. A 'technique' seems to be to try to find something in common - "like, oh I've just moved to this area too." Then it's waffle to try and strike a rapport.

I just said "sorry I'm late for work' (god knows why I said this because I don't even work). Then they ask what you do... then they do something similar. .. then it's "shall we go for lunch, have you got time?" I just looked at the guy and said "I am 47 years old." I swear to god he was not a day over 35, possibly younger. But he didn't seem at all phased.

AIBU to think this was a PUA and he was 'training?' And maybe someone was filming him? The other alternative was that he was trying to find a desperate local woman who would be delighted to take him home and then he could rob her? There are so many crazy people on the streets and it's getting worse. Anyone else been mystified by this?

Men try to pick up women, always will, always have. Some clumsily weirdly obsessively. Whether or not one particular bloke read a particular book/influenced by a particular fad is really neither here nor there.
The real question is why MNers insist on such labels - PUA, Wendy, narc etc.

I'm sort of grasping your point is we on MN should not use the term PUA, for men who describe themselves as PUA, who attend little classes held by men who describe themselves as expert PUAs and then go out on the street to practice their PUA techniques on women, any women, using them as course experiences as if they were plastic dummies in a resuscitation class.

We should not use the term PUA because there are other random creepy chancers about - amateurs! - and we should also not use any other easy shorthand terms for describing easily recognisable types, because... ?

Men hit on women all the time. Men sexually harass women all the time.

Using the term PUA for a man who may or may not have anything to do with the PUA bollocks is cringe. It’s trying to sound worldly but sounding naive.

You tell me to look on Reddit when I already mentioned Reddit in my post - but the rabbit holes of misogyny online are actually endless.

You tell me to look on Reddit when I already mentioned Reddit in my post - but the rabbit holes of misogyny online are actually endless.

I didn't tell you to look on Reddit, just to notice the number of sites and forums for PUA including Reddit, while you were noting the number of titles of books specifically written by and for PUAs.

I think most women can tell when they are being hit on, and when it is quasi-appropriate/sincere albeit misguided, and when it is plain confusing and weird.

PUAs exist. PUA classes exist. And telling people off for using a correct label - and in my experience, naming is power - is silly.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the term before but how awful! How dare these men think they have a right to harass women who are going about their business?

Sometimes I am grateful to be ugly.

Maybe there’s an argument that men need to be able to try and find a potential partner but this is not the way to go about it!

Cringe? That sounds like something a teenager would say. But who cares about someone thinking what we’re saying sounds cringe. We’re not trying to impress anyone here. It’s women sharing experiences.

The reasons these posts are showing up is because it’s a different tactic that women are noticing. We’re all used to the common or garden type but instinct says this is a bit different and that’s why these threads pop up. Knowledge is power. Some of these twats actually use their tactics once they’re in a relationship and it helps some women to recognise the weird backhanded compliments. Anyway, ignore the thread police.

Tell them you are out on licence & speaking to any man under 50yo breaks your probation.

But then that might make them keener…

Do you really? I find that being sexually harassed - which is what this thread is about - actually happens much, much more when I look like absolute crap: tired, sick, out in very casual clothes, wet hair, no makeup, on the way home from a workout, etc. Of course there's a lot of misogynist shite all the time, but let's do Occam's Razor here: there are a whole shite tonne of reasons why you get sexually harassed - and geography is a really big factor - but being attractive is really only significant in that you are attractive to predators. That's not - for most women, you certainly may be an exception - a good or welcomed or desirable thing.

I am sure no one here does. That's what they call themselves. They still hold these stupid seminars and then go out in groups to hassle women in the streets. Often times they will film each other harassing women for some reason.

IMO women can call men who try to harass them in the streets whatever names they want

Because the harassment is the behaviour we should be criticising here, not being pedantic about the words women use to describe their harassers

Totally agree with posters who point out that just because there is a whole spectrum of creeps out there, it doesn't mean PUA shouldn't be called out for what it is.

To be honest, I didn't feel particularly threatened by this man. More confused than anything else because he was so much younger and, if anything, I kept expecting him to ask for money. It was in a busy street and I've had far worse than that in my time. It's very different from a man staring at you on a train, or cat-calling in the street.

For instance, only last week, my daughter and her friend (both 17) were followed around in Covent Garden by two men asking them where they could find prostitutes. That was not PUA. Just the general type of potentially dangerous lowlifes. I was recently approached by a man in his 50s in Sainsbury's who said he could not miss the opportunity and 'had to take me out for dinner' and gave me his card. He was not a PUA. God knows what he was thinking. My neighbour was walking home last week and a man just walked up to her in the street we live in and straight off asked if there was any possibility she could give him a blow job!

I just started the thread because this is the second time that what I suspect is PUA has happened to me in this area. It can't just be around here. As I said, I am late 40s and he was probably early 30s, but I would worry about younger girls having to deal with this. Walking down high streets is like running the gauntlet as it is - with charity workers, people asking for money, people giving out religious leaflets etc etc - the last thing we need is to have to contend with these PUA tossers on their training days.

The experience I described up-thread wasn't just some creep trying to hit on me. It was some creep trying to hit on me in a weird and specific way and then immediately going for a little debrief with his PUA coach. At least as far as I could tell. I don't know why there's a problem with calling that what it (apparently) was.

I’m in my late 50s and was bumped into in the street recently by a man who at a guess was late 40s - he just said ‘nice tits’ and walked off before I even had chance for any kind of put down so I just yelled ‘fuck off’ at his departing back then everyone stared at me like I was some kind of mad woman
it was quite disconcerting

This makes me so, so angry.

It's happened to me loads of times, especially in my twenties. I'd be having a lovely day, feeling happy and relaxed, discover a lovely park or river bank to read and then some arsehole would come and sit next to me and try to chat me up.

I honestly just detest most men now. I'm sick to death of their entitlement. I'm sick to death of having a lovely afternoon ruined by some cunt who thinks he's entitled to intrude and bother me.

I'll never forget when it was a lovely day I went to a canal to go on a little walk. I walked past a group of about four men and one of them looked at me and announced "I'd fuck that" as I walked past. I just completely didn't react and kept going but it was so hateful, it ruined my walk as I knew I had to walk back past them. Stupid bastard. I hate people like that, they don't realise how threatening it feels - or maybe they do, and they just don't care, which is worse. I didn't go back to that canal either which was a shame, as I think they hang out there by a pub that is at the edge of the canal.

Absolutely, if these guys are behaving like pick-up predators (there is nothing artistic about this) then we should be able to highlight that to them - they depend on us not communicating with each other to get away with this kind of creepy shit.

I’d turn around and loudly shout: stop following me.

Men are not entitled to your time, your politeness or to spend time with them. The entitlement of men, and their brass neck never fails to astonish me.

Never divulge personal details like your work. Next time tell him you’re calling the police.

I know a few words of French. Enough to say “I don’t speak English” and a few more phrases that hopefully confuse the harasser without offending him. If he can’t talk to you he usually goes away.

I'm really blunt " leave me alone" " you're making me uncomfortable" "I'm not interested in taking to you". Because I want to be alone I will assert that and that I can be. It doesn't bother me, but admittedly there will sometimes be men that will be offended I know i don't owe them time or a conversation.

This is important, and is why I agree that splitting hairs over terminology isn't merely an aside from the point. It's a distraction which could work to the benefit of these idiots, as it may prevent women from recognising what these men are really about.

PUA is not a 'Mumsnet only' term. The Isla Vista shooter, Elliott Rodger, who was nuts-deep in this repulsive ideology before enacting his horrific 'day of retribution', makes reference to a forum called 'PUA Hate' as far back as 2013. And this is precisely the reason why this feels so threatening. It's not about your garden variety spotty oik with no social skills saying 'oi, love! Fancy a shag?', in full knowledge he'll be unsuccessful and wanting to humiliate women to compensate. This is organized. Its sole goal is to objectify women - the ultimate endgame being using them as wank socks - but it's the overall contempt and objectification of them as service humans for men that is the real aim here.

Minimizing women's concerns and claiming 'we've always had to deal with harassment' [as if any female didn't know] is downplaying a very serious issue about which, IMO, as many women as possible need to be made aware. It's calculated, organized, legitimized misogyny, and it's creepy, threatening and intimidating; always bearing in mind that the one common factor bringing these men together is a hatred of women. It's also dangerous. At its worst, it can and has ended in terrorism. That's pretty much as serious as it gets.

Women urgently need to keep talking about this. Thanks for posting, OP.

Well, I've just had an incident
summer definitely makes it worse.

I thought I'd deal with it differently this time and just swore and kept walking. I suppose I put myself at risk of being punched but it might make him think again.

it was near a station and there were two lady JWs there with their magazine stand, so my brain did a quick calculation that it was probably safe. Sadly I might bump into him locally, but I was dressed very differently than usual due to weather and had hair scraped back in a bun and sunglasses on.

it's infuriating that we can't just potter about minding our own business.

I posted above about my DD who lives in a European city. From your mention of bikes and parks I wonder if it's the same one! (A very flat sort of place!)

It seems to be epidemic there now. DD is being harassed quite a lot. Nothing that seems dangerous yet, but it's worrying how much more frequent such behaviour is, there, and judging by this thread, everywhere else too ☹️

How fucking dare they?

Harassing a member of any social group on the basis of their demographic would at worst result in a criminal charge, at best, in public censure. So why won't our illustrious leaders afford the same courtesy to women as a group? Why isn't misogynistic harassment legislated as precisely what it is: a hate crime?

Of course, we all know why.

they trying to pass some sort of PUA test and there is someone observing or filming to see how far they get after the training?

What does this mean? What scam is this?

IMO women can call men who try to harass them in the streets whatever names they want.

Cunt. Oh whoops, did I type that?