To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

I suspect that an independent Scotland would be looking to offer some incentives to attract inward investment and wealthy people are generally savvy about exploiting such financial situations to their advantage. Some may take this as an opportunity to leave the country but some may move there for the first time, and most wealthy residents would stay put If otherwise happy there, they can afford to. It would depend on how things pan out really. If the transition period was chaotic and quality of infrastructure and services declined, people may lose patience and leave.

An independent Scotland in the EU would attract people and businesses, too. Being in the EU or not will probably be the deal maker/breaker for Scottish independence

EU membership might take a long time. I doubt EFTA membership would, though, which would be a huge step in the right direction. The UK should have joined EFTA (although I am not sure the other countries wanted it as it would be too big).

Just a lighthearted post and a suggestion.
Speaking as a northern English girl I think it would be a good idea to move the Scottish border about 100 miles south and us northerners can join Scotland. I think we have more in common.

Like most nationalists they're liars.

They lied that Scotland would have the right to continue using the pound (they knew it wouldn't or else they were far too stupid to run a country).

They lied that they had legal advice saying Scotland would remain part of the EU on independence (no legal advice has ever been produced - only a letter from a retired diplomat saying the EU would surely ignore its own rules.)

And they lied that the oil would just be 'bonus' money (in fact their own figures showed they needed $100 a barrel to balance the budget).

And they cried foul at the BBC, accused it of bias, and generally threw shit around.

People rightly get stuck into Boris Johnson - also a liar - about his bus slogan. But the above are way more stark and far reaching, and no one has called them to account.

I wonder what they'll lie about this time.

To me, there is no real difference between the UK leaving the EU and Scotland leaving the UK. Both unmitigated disasters.

I've never quite understood the apparent cognitive dissonance among a sizeable number of vocal Scots in that the UK voting for independence from the EU was a stupid, nasty, bitter, xenophobic betrayal; whereas Scotland voting for independence from the rest of the UK is brave, laudable and a greatly positive thing.

Surely, if (going on the slim majority vote for Brexit) we're sad little Englanders and Walesers (is that a word?!), Scots who want to stay in the EU (or rejoin after gaining independence) but who are desperate for independence from the UK must also be petty, small-minded little Scotlanders, no?

Ba ha ha

The people that vote against the referendum are likely to be brexit voters, and they are welcome to leave .

But they won’t. Wish they would.

By that logic, all member states should have got a vote on whether we left the EU.

Nope that's Royal Bank of Scotland... RBS. Bank of Scotland is with HSBC.

You are fucking kidding aren't you? How fucking dare you resort to base stereotypes. I'll tell you wjy i love here: culturally and socially my life and that of my children is rich; I was educated to a very high standard by the state with free university education; my children are high achieving, with the eldest being offered a place at all high ranking universities (have you looked on the education boards with hordes of MNers desperate for places at St As/ Edinburgh?): my youngest has ASN and his provision and care is second to none; he has medical issues and the world renowned department we visit is 10 mins away; his consultant calls regularly; we own our lovely home comfortably; we travel weekly to the most stunning scenery in our camper van; we hike/ bike in world class facilities; we eat fresh, local, wonderful produce; the people around us are friendly, funny and we're culturally very connected; we speak our own, diverse language; my entire life is here, including my friends for over 35 years. I am from here, I am connected to this place, this land.

No matter anyone's politics, there is a basic courtesy of not being a total arse.

And, there are drug issues everywhere. Take any big city anywhere and you'll see the same.

Lastly, the only thing we hate about the English is London money: people selling their over-inflated London houses and buying property in rural/ popular areas, thus pushing out local people. But the people in Cornwall/ Devon/ Northumberland feel exactly the same, it's not only a Scottish issue.

Yep. Like Brexit it will be economically disastrous

I've lived in various EU countries and England, now settled back in Scotland but I still can't get over the uneducated bigots, they think we can sustain ourselves on irn bru, whisky and wool.

I believe that many Scots consider themselves first Scottish and second European. Brexit has most definitely strengthened the SNP's hand.

It will be even worse than Brexit with border issues but yes they likely will

❤

You’d be very welcome! (Especially if you’re in the north east, I’m shallow for a north eastern English accent 😂)

@Puffalicious's vitriolic reply to a perfectly reasonable and polite post is one of the many reasons this debate is damaging.

The people that vote against the referendum are likely to be brexit voters, and they are welcome to leave .

So presumably, those voting against having a referendum are doing so because they don't want Scotland to leave the UK? Meaning that the others, who do want a referendum (assuming because, in the main, they want independence) are the same ones who avowedly didn't want to leave the EU?

That just proves my point: why is one of those desires for independence xenophobic and stupid whereas the other desire for independence is a wise and positive thing?

many of them hate the English and think Braveheart was a documentary

I'm English and saw Braveheart in a cinema in Edinburgh. I've rarely felt so uncomfortable in my life - it was a truly frightening and horrible experience. I felt like if anyone heard my English accent as I walked out of the cinema I might get lynched. No exaggeration.

Yes. It's cognitive dissonance.
Westmonster is 'too far'. Yet Europe is 'our neighbour'.
Just as Scotland is genuinely far less racist than England. Unless you're English.
A lot of it is emotional / heart led stuff.
But at the end of the day, last time people voted with their heads / £ / practically
This time, who knows? But I dread the cost & upheaval of IndyRef2 so soon :(

I wouldn't worry about it for now. Sturgeon and the SNP have no intention of holding a referendum. They do this every so often - carrots for their donkeys.

For a party so truly into independence, she has done zero to further the case, and zero to build support for it.

I was very pro independence and SNP, then I seen through them. And though I would like an independent Scotland I am not so keen on a banana republic, which is exactly what it would become if the SNP were left in charge. They are far too corrupt. And I always believed that and Independent Scotland was about moving away from corrupt politics, not being better at it.

It's amazing that the SNP have managed to portray themselves as enlightened progressives (unlike those nasty, backward little Englanders). To me, they often seem more like hate-filled bigots. I do not mean that everyone who supports them is a bigot. I'm talking about the party.

If you want to win support for a nationalist cause, the quickest way to do so is by stirring up hatred towards your neighbour. This has always been true. Like it or not, their success depends on demonizing the English, and they know just which buttons to press. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's true. Of course, they are very careful never to do or say anything that makes it too obvious. Often, for example, they will use the word 'Tory' when we all know they really mean 'English'. At times, it has reduced me almost to tears.

Not sure this answers the original question but independence will be terrible for Scotland but not bad for England at all. In fact, England would benefit from being independent of all the other countries of the UK as they are a financial drain.

Scotland's main hope is they become Brussels' poor, indigent relation rather than Westminster's. But that isn't really independence. You've just swapped masters.

i thought Scotland was owned by wealthy people (the land)

Vitriolic? Because I swore and offended your sensibilities?

The REST of the post is a very polite reply to someone who asked why the hell I stay in Scotland if it's just a place with uneducated druggies. That is in no way polite- it's offensive.

And my reply is not political at all- I have not even mentioned yes/no voting- my offence is at someone being so offensive.

Yes they will. So will others.

We will leave because my husband is English and my children and half English and we wouldn't feel welcome in a nationalist state