To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

@Oceanus
You can't base anything on figures for a COVID year.

OK, but in 2019/20, ie a non covid year, the receipts were at 643, barely higher than the following covid year.

To not have to listen to Scottish politics and NS on LBC anymore… for that reason alone, I want Scotland to give independency a bash!

zero interest in it.
no one take about it…. Not friends, family, colleagues, acquaintances

total non issue for SE commuter town.

No one talking about it I meant to say

i honestly don’t recall ever in my life discussing Scotland and independency or indeed anything about Scotland other than it being bloody cold, a long way to travel, with lots of natural beauty but a shit load of poverty and ugliness too

Wales in a similar vein are obsessed with slamming the eveil Tories in Westminster, and how they are running Wales into the ground.
We have devolved Healthcare with the worst waiting times, operation and ambulance call out, bed per capita in the whole of the UK.
Our devolved education is an asbolute farce, with literacy rates amongst the lowest in Europe.
A PM that purchased an Airport for £50m and now it is worth less than half that.
Hundreads of millions spent on an M4 relief road report, to in turn ignore the findings an shelve it.
A puiblic owned rail service that fails on every metric it is measured against.

This is what you get, when you have in essence a parish council running a country.

I think Sturgeon needs to clearly explain where the money's coming from and how much there would be. There must be a game plan before people vote or it's going to be another one like Brexit with millionaires sponsoring PR companies to get their own ahead (and them moving their business or they trust funds to Singapore). It's too big to base on blogs, forums or cousins' opinions.

I agree, if Brexit has taugh us anything. A clear and formally constructed business plan should be made available. With the data and information independtly (as much as possible) verified for accuracy.

I.E cost of a new currency is £4m with this being funded by xyz

I agree, plus it will heavily impact next generations

I’ve had a Google around and it’s hard to build a picture

This seemed quite good, has an indication of drops for each approach

www.investmentmonitor.ai/analysis/who-would-pay-the-bills-in-an-independent-scotland

But this stood out

Lloyd says: “The SNP has not come to any particular conclusion about what the post-independence economy would be like. It hasn’t done the work, which, of course, would be speculative. Who knows about the future? The SNP should at least try to do some kind of looking into the next ten years to find the downsides and the upsides of what faces an independent Scotland.”

Lloyd adds that independence would, at least initially, mean a tightening of Scottish purse strings. “The next decade, [with or without] independence, will be quite tough for Scotland, and there is no way out of the the individual GDP per head falling – and falling perhaps quite sharply.”

Again I’m sure there are counter arguments but based on figures would be good

Cam you explain the point you made re education?

My country, Singapore gained independence from the UK and joined up with Malaysia, but gained independence in 1965. I don't think there was a period of time where it was much poorer than Malaysia; in fact when it left, it's GDP per capita was 4X that of Malaysia. I have heard older people in Singapore say that in the 1960s say that Singapore was like the London of Malaysia despite Malaysia having its own capital, KL; people moved there for jobs etc including my grandfather.

If young people from London/England are moving to Edinburgh for better careers and the GDP per capita of Edinburgh is higher than London, then yes you are ready for a prosperous independence. Singapore today is far richer than Malaysia (and the UK) by a long shot. Before Scotland achieves that, it's not ready.

Just to clear up some of the banking myths expressed earlier.

Royal Bank of Scotland is a subsidiary of NatWest Group. Other subsidiaries are NatWest Bank in England/Wales and Ulster Bank in Northern Ireland. NatWest Group is Scottish - the headquarters and registered office is in Edinburgh. It is 48% owned by the British Government.

Bank of Scotland is a subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group (along with Lloyds Bank and Halifax). Lloyds Banking Group is Scottish - the registered office is in Edinburgh. The headquarters and operations are all based in London, and it would be a simple administrative procedure for the registered office to move to England. The British Government no longer has a stake in Lloyds.

Clydesdale Bank is a subsidiary of Virgin Money UK. Virgin Money UK is English - the registered office is in Newcastle. It's operations are split between Newcastle and Glasgow.

Even Joanna Cherry has said they need to spell out the plan for the big stuff.

I'm English, DH is Scottish. I've lived here for 15 years. I've lived in a big city and I've lived in Island and rural communities. I have honestly never heard or seen any xenophobia. There are lots of English people at my work - this has never cropped up as any kind of lived experience for them. I'm honestly shocked by what I'm reading on this thread, if its happening - its incredibly well hidden.

Same. Moving to Scotland soon but have previously lived there, for many years. I've never experienced or come across any such behaviour either, having lived in suburban and rural locations. Unfortunately the most xenophobia I've come across is in England. I found Scotland to be much more welcoming.

Well, I’m totally Scottish, lived here all my life, and countless examples of anti English feeling, including towards my child

The SNP hate the English almost as much as they hate women

@get The EU made it publicly clear they would welcome an application from an independent Scotland.

They welcome applications from any country which meet its entrance criteria.

How much will it cost Scotland? How long will it take to get membership? Given that not everyone who voted yes wants to join the EU will we actually join? What are the T&Cs for an independent Scotland joining?

That's horrid. Can you give us examples? My DF was English and lived here for 60 years. He experienced only mild bias way back in the 60s and 70s- and he was a cop, so prime target. He got more flak in the force for being Catholic...

@SirChenjins Senior EU figures, including former European Council President Donald Tusk, said the EU would “enthusiastically” welcome Scotland after independence.

Fabian Zuleeg, chief executive of the European Policy Centre in Brussels, said “the mood on the EU side is rather positive” and suggested an independent Scotland might be able to conclude membership negotiations in “two to three years” – similar to Finland in the mid-1990s.

In terms of anti-English feelings, it will depend on where you live. There are places in Scotland where the majority of residents are from England.

I also think sometimes what gets described as anti-English feelings is actually about class.

There’s a vocal number of pro Independence supporters who certainly do not want to re join the EU.
Many of the old guard want a truly independent Scotland, independent of Westminster and Brussels.

Wealthy Scots will have a choice.
I’m a wealthy Scot living in England and I have no interest in returning to an independent Scotland.
Ideologically, I’d prefer Scotland to remain in the Union but if the SNP had done even a half decent job, I wouldn’t necessarily oppose independence.

Those of you who think the SNP will cease to exist, are delusional.
Nicola Sturgeon is even more power hungry than Boris Johnson and until/unless she’s offered a cushy job in the EU, she’ll be getting wheeled out of Holyrood in her dotage.
Then there are all the SNP politicians many of whom who would be hard pushed to get a minimum wage job anywhere else.
Do you really think they’re going to give all that up?

So, where is all the Scottish talent?
Many of them are living and working south of the border in the financial sector and I don’t know any of them who are remotely enthusiastic about Scottish independence.

People who have never experienced or witnessed anti English feeling are extremely fortunate as I have come across it many times including directed towards my DC whose DNA is nearly 100% Scottish but possess English accents.

@ScarletTulips why would the SNP cease to exist?
The point simply is that Scotland is a democracy and so voters can vote in who they like.

PP alluded to the idea that once independence was achieved the SNP wouldn’t necessarily remain in power.
It’s an argument I’ve heard before and I don’t believe for a second that the SNP would relinquish power or that there are dozens of high calibre Scottish politicians from other parties about to step up.

As I previously said, they welcomed Turkey's application in 1987. Scotland has to sort out its finances before it can join anything.

i think the SNP will lose power quite quickly when the lies become clear and we are actually living the economic shit show. The Tories popularity is dropping like a stone due to Brexit and the SNPs own economist thinks Indy will be 10 x worse.

I will be moving my savings south of the border prior to a referendum if any referendum looks like it might be close to insure the Scottish government can’t freeze my assets by introducing capital controls. I will also have my house market-ready.

No one can compare Scotland to Turkey, esp as Turkey has moved far from the centre more recently.

Don't underestimate the politics here, Scotland joining the EU or even EFTA, would be a huge kick in the teeth for any Tory Govt, its more than possible the Tories could just keep winning under FPTP and the longer the Tories deny Scotland another vote, the more resentment will grow.