To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

A woman who knowingly sleeps with a married man has no morals IMO, but the man is more to blame. Personally I couldn't knowingly be the OW. I'd be furious that some bloke was that fucking arrogant to have a bit on the side and wouldn't find it attractive at all.

The ow if she knows she is an ow, does shoulder some of the blame. Ow has capacity to say no, to hurt a fellow woman. But her own need for x, y and z, is more important than being the catalyst for someone else suffering.

@SexyLittleNosferatu literally no-one on this thread has ONLY blamed the ow or said the cheating spouse isn't to blame, or that they can't help themselves being tempted. What some of us are saying is that an OW who knows that is what they are are neglecting some basic human decency. Not a duty directly to the wife (unless she knows her) but just in general to not deliberately participate in fucking up someone's life / family / finances / children etc. You are straw-manning this. No-one is saying the man is blameless or that the OW is more to blame. Most of us aren't even saying she is equally to blame, but SOME anger toward her is justified.

I completely disagree with whoever it was that said affairs are a symptom of some existing fatal flaw in the marriage or that cheated on spouses should have done a better job of picking their partner. Every marriage has its stresses and strains that it can normally weather, but pile on additional pressure at just the right time in just the right way and it can break. I was genuinely happy with my first husband. We had a lovely life until I fell in utter and total lust / limerance with a work colleague and screwed it all up. I spent quite a lot of time explaining to our friends that my ex had not done anything wrong, that it was not something he could have or should have seen coming.

The OW is to blame but I don't think she is equally to blame. She has a general moral obligation to be a decent human being. He has a specific personal obligation to the person he committed to and is supposed to love. Unless the OW is a friend, sibling etc. In which case yes, equally to blame.

I slept with a married man once. It's the most shameful thing I've ever done. He's also the only person other than my husband that I've ever had sex with. I was a 19 year old anorexic ballet dancer with no self esteem or self respect. He was a 39 year old banker who thought he was God's gift. Worst cliche ever. He told me I was beautiful and talented and special and bought me things. I knew he was married. He said it was loveless but who knows. Probably a lie. I was with him for a week before he dropped me for a friend. Another dancer - she was 18, prettier than me and equally full of self hate.

Were we at fault? God, yes. Were we as despicable as him? I don't think so.

It took me a very long time to move past what I did. I hope life turned out ok for his wife.

Both parties are equally to blame. It is also well known that men who are cheating on their wives are usually if not always abusing them in the domestic setting also. Knowingly being the other women is effectively volunteering yourself to be a metaphorical stick to beat another woman with. Quite often that is all those women are, just a tool to hurt the spouse. Baffles me that they cannot see it and would contribute to someone else's misery and heartbreak.

It's also much easier than admitting to yourself that you made a very poor choice of partner.

I agree with you op. Plus how hard is it to find a guy who isn't married? Why would you even want a guy who is happy to cheat on his wife and his family anyway? He's hardly a good catch is he? You're an idiot to be honest if you think he is a good catch. Same for men who sleep with married women, she is no catch. It's proof they are not loyal. It's proof they have no morals. It's proof that they are liars.

The cheater is always the most to blame. But the fool who helped by shagging them is not blameless. There's a reason they are called homewreckers, shame we got rid of the term because of people being offended.

@ChiselandBits
In the UK "Forsaking all others" isn't a required part of a marriage ceremony. Asking the congregants to agree to support the marriage isn't a required part of a marriage ceremony (and even if it were, asking it of friends and family who have turned up to the wedding is entirely different from placing an obligation on all strangers, just because you choose to do it).

My point isn't that marriage isn't usually understood in the UK by the participants to be sexually exclusive, rather that the institution does not require fidelity. Sleeping with someone who is married is simply sleeping with someone who has lied to their spouse. It's no worse than sleeping with someone who is in a supposedly sexually exclusive relationship where they aren't married. It isn't an attack on the institution of marriage.

I do agree that knowingly getting involved with someone who is in a relationship isn't a "blameless" thing to do. But the OP is suggesting the action is on par with the spouse who has cheated and I can not see it. It's a fairly selfish thing to do, but it isn't a betrayal the way the cheating partner's actions are.

I think its natural to feel angry at the OW but tbh if it were me I would 100% blame my husband. He would have been the one lying to me not her (if I didn’t know her). I think if I knew OW it would be different.

If he had said no and walked away for the love and respext he should hold his family in then the other woman would have nowhere to go,She will act on whatever vibes he shows to her, If he gives her an in then it is all on him again for choosing her over his wife. I would in an ideal world much prefer if both women and men put their relationships to bed and split way before anyone goes to look to see if the grass is greener with someone else. but sadly most people are cowards and they make life so much worse for everyone involved.in the whole sordid mess.

The best day of my miserable marriage was confronting my husband with his OW in a park. Yes, I'd got into his Facebook and knew exactly where they were going to be. No, they didn't expect it. He tried gaslighting me, she was horrified. I kept my fury for him, but she was a teaching assistant at my grandchilds school so my daughter had words with her. I found out later that she had confronted her and warned her off. Sometimes you have to do this, even though for you the majority blame is your OH, sometimes the OW needs to feel the force of fury to give he/she the opportunity to consider what they've been doing. IMO my OH AP was so, so lucky that I'd decided not to tell her husband. Sometimes I think I should have.

OW he/she doesn't quite work but I'm sure you understand what I meant.

Neither pleased with myself nor not pleased with myself. I made a very bad choice of husband for reasons which I don't wish to list here. It was kind of inevitable that I would have an affair with the first man who was kind and gentle and considerate towards me, and who cared about what I thought and felt.

I don't believe anyone is at fault. You could say it was the OM's fault for shitting on my family. You could say it was my fault for having an affair. You could say it was XH's fault for what he did, and not just to me. You could say it was my fault for marrying him in the first place and having children with him.

None of that gets anyone anywhere, though. Affairs can happen for all kinds of reasons, and nobody gets anywhere by trying to apportion blame.

While there are excellent moral reasons to be angry with the OW, feelings are often exacerbated by jealousy, and a desire to 'reduce' her, to comfort ourselves we are better than her, and he is wrong to prefer her.

@5128gap i have no doubt I am
better than OW

If my husband had an affair ofcourse he would be to blame. The OW would also be to blame because in my book its a very nasty vicious crime to sleep with another woman's husband. That crime deserves punishment which i would spare no fear in meating out.

^I absolutely understand the point you are trying to make but the simple fact is that you have to be married in order to commit adultery.
The unmarried partner is absolutely doing wrong. It's just not fitting the conditions for adultery.^

@FinallyHere Maybe legally but not spiritually/morally. They are both committing the sin of adultery.

Old Testament- If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, even with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and adulteress must be put to death Leviticus (20:10-12) It doesn't say that the adulterer needs to be married themselves.

New Testament:- Jesus says to the woman who committed adultery, 'Neither do I condemn you,' {...} 'Go away, and from this moment sin no more.' (John 8:11) He is more forgiving but still considers it a sin she needs to stop doing. We are not supposed to stone adulterers to death now, but they still need to stop doing it.

He's not going to say to an unmarried person that shagging a married one is ok.

It's only when neither person is married that it's called 'fornication' instead.

I don't think we should be looking to the Bible for clarification on what is right and wrong.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

By this you are assuming the other woman knew he was married/in a monogamous relationship. If he lied to his wife, what makes you think he wouldn't lie to the other woman?

In fact, how do you know YOU never slept with a cheater? Should I blame you for not being able to see the lies?

Ridiculous! Blaming Eve again. A man being "intentionally seduced" could just say no. Or is the argument then changed to "he couldn't help himself, being a weak man and all".

If the cheating bastard told the OW that he is single or that it is a marriage in name only and his wife doesn't care, she's not going to "instinctively" know that she'd be hurting anyone and so avoid it. In the cases where a man has a secret other family, with each woman not even being aware of the other, how can you blame the OW?

Yabu. When my ex cheated on me that was all on him. He betrayes and lied to me. It wasn't the fault of random Jayne who lived round a few miles away. I'd never met her in my life she didn't owe me.

Believe it or not I am not drunk, I just did not check that before sending. Sorry!

Oh for goodness sake. Quoting the bible, really? It’s utterly irrelevant to many many people.

I was cheated on. The OW also had her own man she cheated on too.
My ex was to blame, but so was she. She was with someone, and she knew my ex was with me.
I will be single for life now.. I can never trust another person with my heart again. I was on a psych ward for a month after I found out about his betrayal. It literally nearly killed me.