To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

I don't think it's equal just baffled at why people are still going on so adamantly. Frankly, even if people do think it's equal, I don't care (unless the woman genuinely didn't know and it's not her fault at all). You put yourself in that stupid situation, a terrible experience for the wife and then cry because they say you did wrong. You did!

It's like assisting in a crime and then complaining your getting punished because it wasn't your hands committing the crime directly

I don't think it's equal just baffled at why people are still going on so adamantly.

Well I explained why it matters to me. What's your excuse for still being here?

I'm not writing essays like you, that's the point. All the OWs getting wound up.

IME of working in male dominated environments for the last 20+ years, most married men are cheating or want to cheat if the opportunity arises.

They also constantly lie about their situations. She doesn’t love me. She doesn’t show me any affection. I don’t get looked after. I can’t leave because of the kids and she has threatened to take the house. She’s abusive and domineering. She doesn’t want to have sex anymore. We have a tacit agreement I should have relationships elsewhere as long as it doesn’t get out and make her look bad. She spends all the family money. She’s obsessed with keeping up with the Jones’ puts pressure on me to afford things and not at all interested in our relationship. She treats me like a cash machine. Her parents live with us and she is dedicated to them. She doing IVF/going through the menopause and she has become a hormonal monster. She hits me. We are separated….. But still sleeping in the same bed/house….for the kids. She is divorcing me. She is cheating on me. She had an affair. We are all but separated but she has a terminal illness / eating disorder/her mum/dad is dying/ our DC are going through a difficult time and need to see us together.

as a young, unmarried woman who does not have children (not saying all OWs are like this) you would probably think these excuses are the exception and not the rule when you hear them. I have seen many women think “poor him” and believe the wife to be a monster and actually be able to convince themselves they are doing the right thing.

If you’re accusing me of being one of the ‘OWs getting wound up’, let me assure you that you’re very very wrong. I have never been an OW and can confidently say I will never knowingly be so, as untrustworthy men are of no interest to me. But I will still maintain my position that I am not responsible for any man adhering to his marriage vows. That’s his responsibility, not mine. When he and his wife took those vows, they didn’t, and couldn’t, include me in them. Those who took the vows are those responsible for upholding them.

You only need a quick look at some of the boards on here to know that some women will fall for the "mean wife / ex wife" line every time. It also makes them feel amazing by comparison! So, very tempting to believe it. But that shows a real weakness that I couldn't bear in a friend.

I've actually more or less had to cut someone out of my life after she fell for some guy's nonsense about his ex wife. He'd been using sex workers "because she's sooooo meeeaaaan and probably GAY too, the BITCH". Anyway, he fucked the new woman over in a pretty cold and cruel way, which was no surprise, sadly.

All on my phone, too. bows

I write fast. It's ok if you can't keep up. It's tiresome that all you're capable of taking from this is the idea that I must be an OW, but these threads always show that ingrained misogyny leads to stunted thought processes. I think you're the fourth person now to try to invalidate challenges to your thinking in that lazy, sexist way? I lose count.

ReneBumsWombats Why so rude? It doesn’t get your point across if you just write to wind people up.

Attempts to discredit people by claiming they are OW are ruder, I think.

They're not surprising, though.

Nothing wrong with being an OW right? Not rude

Even if I did think there was nothing wrong with being an OW, you clearly do and so of course it's rude. Especially when your only reason for the accusation is that I'm disagreeing with you. As well you know.

Do people really think they can hide their lies and disingenuousness if they add a pathetic emoji to it?

But I'll admit I didn't immediately think "rude" until that poster mentioned it. I just thought it was exactly the level of reason to expect from ingrained misogyny. Insults and emojis.

The rudeness doesn't lie in calling someone an OW as an insult. When it's a stranger on the Internet that's too childish to be offended by.
The rudeness lies in attacking a person for an ascribed lifestyle choice, rather than debating the point they've made.

Well, its probably more thick than rude.

It shows an inability to engage with the argument, so instead attacking the motives of the person for making the argument.

Especially thick as the argument is so simple. Stop protecting men by focusing on women when men behave badly.

I could just as easily say that everyone who disagrees with me obviously has a husband who ran off because they're so boring and ugly.There's nothing morally wrong with being ugly and boring or having your husband leave you, but I think most people would agree it's rude. It certainly wouldn't be an intelligent comment. Even if I did add an emoji.I hope, or I'm screwed

And this is why I should preview comments. Maybe I should indeed stick to emojis.

bows

What I meant to say was:

I could just as easily say that everyone who disagrees with me obviously has a husband who ran off because they're so boring and ugly.

There's nothing morally wrong with being ugly and boring** or having your husband leave you, but I think most people would agree it's rude. It certainly wouldn't be an intelligent comment. Even if I did add an emoji.

**I hope, or I'm screwed

Yep.

In my twenties, starting as young as 20, I was the target of these stories.

"My wife is mean to me."

"She forced me into the marriage."

"I've tried to leave but she won't let me."

Always the same old narrative about the poor put-upon misunderstood man with a nagging wife who won't let him 'be himself'. I think most men convince themselves of this narrative so they can cheat and not feel guilty.

Always blanked the man but always found it amazing that without exception, the poor wives would show up at work parties and were always lovely, normal women who thought they were happily married. They would always go on to have one, two, three kids. I look at social media and they're still together, most of them, with the man no doubt continuing to lie and cheat.

100% this.

Actually there's something worse. The man involved.

Pollydonia that's really shocking .some women are without morals it seems. Many women don't know if a guy is married though. Often guys will say they are separated or going through a divorce. In reality they are at home with their wife and dc.the ow often hang on for years in the hope that the chap will leave their wife for them .as usual women get shafted and men have a good time at their expense

Another oldie rears it's head.

When a husband cheats, none of the blame should leave the marriage.

What does ghis mean? Why is it only if the husband cheats? Would it not apply if the wife cheats?

Sorry OP but could not resist reading your analogy like so:
If I bonk someone's DH in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bonk their DH, they didn't put their trust in me not to bonk their DH , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their DH. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

On a more serious note, I partially agree with you but only if the OW knew your DH was married or in a monogamous relationship. If the DH lied and faked being single, then they’re not accountable. They’re actually as much a victim as you are.

The ‘other’ woman is not a party to the agreement between the couple to be monogamous or married or whatever. People not a party to an agreement have no obligation to follow that agreement and they don’t owe you anything.

Legally no. But morally it's repugnant.

Obviously the main issue is with the spouse. But it's not unreasonable to also be very disappointed in people who don't shut down approaches from someone who is married.

Yep. My ex cheated on me, with a women who was also cheating on her partner. Both assholes. My ex knew about her DP, and she knew about me.

Bollocks. Clearly someone in a relationship isn’t available. Not hard to understand .

Once they are out of the relationship, fair enough.