To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

Yes you’d blame him for his selfish greed but I bet you’d still be telling everyone how dreadful chocolate/burgers/beer is and how you wish it wasn’t so available.

That analogy is a bit ridiculous. What is the wife in your scenario, broccoli? 😆

The OW is not somehow less 'wholesome' than the wife.

Well what if the chocolate ( or fast food/ alcohol / cigarettes made your husband diabetic and got really ill and died early.

Then he was REALLY fucking stupid to eat it!

Ok so what if the woman actually takes something from the vault. The employee said it was ok or no one would find out.

Then he's a REALLY fucking bad key holder!

It wasn’t my analogy.
It was just to point out that people blame whatever takes their loved one regardless of their husbands own part in the downfall.

I

You do, but plenty of others don't.

I had a loved one who cut his life short with bad choices. I don't "blame" him exactly, but I certainly don't hold junk food and sofa companies responsible.

I worked on a site many years ago where one of the women was having an affair with manager. His wife found out and he moved sites. The woman in question started having an affair with his replacement, he was promoted and moved on. She then started an affair with the new manager who went on to leave his wife and she left her partner and they set up home.

I often get the impression here that its always predatory men failing to take into account that women are equally interested in sex.

If he strays its his fault but any woman who starts a relationship where its a 'my wife doesn't understand me' situation is also to blame as she really should be so gullible. Doesn't matter who starts the relationship if one is married the other ought to be saying come back when your single again.

Don’t we all owe each other basic decency? It’s the law of the jungle otherwise.

Not at all. Keep your sexual promises to your committed partner and there's no jungle at all.

And like I said...some people don't consider marriage to be anything special. They think it's an artificial institution and don't wish to have it impinge on their sex lives. They've got a right to feel that way. If everyone who is married doesn't feel that way, all they have to do is behave accordingly.

I often get the impression here that its always predatory men failing to take into account that women are equally interested in sex.

Well this is the curious OW paradox. On the one hand she's a cheap shameless slut, on the other nobody can figure out why she has an affair and what she gets out of it. It's an absolute mystery. It must be because she has no self esteem/is stupid and gullible/thinks she's getting one over on the wife. Anything other than the most bloody obvious reason why anyone would have sex.

If he strays its his fault but any woman who starts a relationship where its a 'my wife doesn't understand me' situation is also to blame as she really should be so gullible.

Well I suppose she's to blame for any subsequent knock to her own wellbeing, as that's her responsibility. And I wouldn't be playing any violins over it. She's not responsible for his contract though.

I’m really torn on this.
Yes in a relationship your OH has committed to you and as a result is the one responsible for breaching that commitment.

That said, I have an ex-friend who persistently seeks out taken men because she doesn’t want the same kind of commitment and she has no issues with it because she owes the wife nothing, not her problem. She thinks it’s a bit of a game. Technically that may be true but it’s a horrible approach and makes me think that maybe the OP has a point too.

And does the responsibility change when it’s your husband and your best friend having an affair or your husband and sister in law? Don’t those people also owe you respect and not to breach your relationship with them? It also works the other way when it’s the wife is having an affair with her husbands best friend or brother/in law - so it’s not just about nasty women and poor helpless men.

For one woman to manage to seduce three successive married managers is so very unlikely, if I were you I'd suspect the person who told me that was a bit of a fibber.

An OW who knows her AP is married but goes ahead anyway is equally to blame. She knows it's wrong and she will hurt another human being by doing it, but she does it anyway.

One person alone doesn't bear the blame, they both do. I would personally be more angry with my H than the woman, as he was the one who betrayed me directly, but the OW also has harmed me, although by a secondary action. She does owe me, as every other human being has a duty of care to others.

Of course if she is duped then that's different.

She does owe me, as every other human being has a duty of care to others.

The sex lives of strangers do not constitute an obliged duty of care to you.

Well this is the curious OW paradox. On the one hand she's a cheap shameless slut, on the other nobody can figure out why she has an affair and what she gets out of it. It's an absolute mystery. It must be because she has no self esteem/is stupid and gullible/thinks she's getting one over on the wife. Anything other than the most bloody obvious reason why anyone would have sex.

But she can shag anyone shes want if shes wants just sex. And surely one of the men shes shagging must be actually available if she actually want a relationship as well? Why go for the married man.
I wouldn’t classify a one night stand as an OW.

She does owe me, as every other human being has a duty of care to others.

We don't have a duty of care towards every other human being. Or at least, if we do, it's a totally broken covenant that hasn't been stuck to through the whole of history. People still choose to drive when they could take public transport. Still buy wood burning stoves. Still walk past homeless people in the street. We vote in governments that promise more than the world can possibly sustain if we didn't have far more of the world's resources than fairness would dictate - contributing to hunger, war and devastating climate change elsewhere.

It's a sort of nice fantasy that we owe everyone else a generalised duty of care, but there's no evidence that's the case.

OW doesn't know you from Adam she doesn't owe you. You can think that of course.

This

It's easier to blame or dislike the different or unknown.

Sure, but, as per the immigration example, that doesn't make it right.

All number of reasons why she might want the married man. How does anyone choose a sexual partner? He doesn't have to be married to be an appalling choice.

This is just a variation of the original question. Which is effectively: why do women enjoy sex? More specifically: why do women enjoy sex that they're not supposed to have?

Again, questions nobody ever asks of a man. We may not approve of him shagging around but we never find ourselves so totally bamboozled as to why he wants to.

This is just a variation of the original question. Which is effectively: why do women enjoy sex? More specifically: why do women enjoy sex that they're not supposed to have?

Basic sexual attraction? Forbidden fruit is sweeter. Bit of excitement. Because they can.

Again, questions nobody ever asks of a man. We may not approve of him shagging around but we never find ourselves so totally bamboozled as to why he wants to.

Same as above.

It's nothing to do with "the institution of marriage". That's completely irrelevant. It's to do with not being a total wanker and being happy to hurt other people for your own benefit.

It's cruel and entirely self centred, and if everyone acted that way, the world would be an even worse place than it is.

Male or female, married or unmarried, sex or anything else, taking what you want irrespective of the pain and trauma you cause is a shit, shit thing to do.

I was a frequent visitor to the office. It was not discreet just nobody cared. She was actually a very nice person to talk to.

Marriage is irrelevant to affairs? I'm sure many MM and OW would like that.

Tell the people who promised someone else they wouldn't do it.

Some people don't accept marriage as anything important or binding and they're not required to. As long as everyone who swore otherwise makes good on the promise, it's all fine.

If marriage is irrelevant and the only criterion is not "being happy to hurt other people for your own benefit", then I should never have started dating my husband. We were both single but we also both had other people in love with us at the time (not exes) and it definitely hurt them for our benefit.

OK, I now no longer believe you're answering me in good faith (and also I have a ton of work to do), so I'm out.

I think my meaning (and @CounsellorTroi who made a similar point about not gratuitously causing pain to other humans for totally selfish reasons) was perfectly clear.

I don't know if you're unable or unwilling to understand it, or if you just get some sort of kick out of pretending not to get it, but in any case I don't have the time for it.

(And no I don't think that a 30-year co-habiting relationship with children and three decades of shared memories is any less important because the people involved haven't made a formal declaration of marriage. It's about not being a complete cunt, not about the legal status of marriage.)

Your point of view is horrible, and if everyone took the same attitude that you do towards other people, it would be better for the world to end.