To disagree with the statement "the other woman owes you nothing"

[Sarahcoggles]

I see this time and again on MN.
Woman posts that husband is having an affair. She hates the OW and is very angry with her, as well as being angry with husband of course.
Then a load of posters pile in saying she should direct all her anger at husband, as he was the only one who owed her anything. The OW owed her nothing, so she shouldn't be angry with her.

I think that's wrong. We all owe our fellow human beings respect and courtesy. If I bump someone's car in a car park I should leave them a note. I don't owe them anything, I never promised I wouldn't bump into their car, they didn't put their trust in me not to bump into their car , I never promised to pay for any damage that I might do to their car. They don't even know me. But it's still my fault, my carelessness, and common courtesy dictates that I should leave a note and be held accountable.

Why is it perfectly fine to have a relationship with someone else's husband, knowing that you're going to hurt that person, just because they're a stranger and you never promised you wouldn't shag their husband?

Personally I think both parties are equally to blame, just in different ways.

BadNomad I did not say "Jesus said..." in this thread.

I simply raised the bible as a very simple counter in this world (one of a few counters) to the world we live in where you can literally do anything whatsoever you like without punishment from society unless it is enshrined as a crime in legislation.

And I would even say that is the case with people who do antisocial things and get "frozen out" of their communities. You can still move someone else and do that antisocial thing again. No one is going to stop you. (no doubt this is one reason why being a serial adulterer is not an uncommon thing).

I think the married person has more responsibility for infidelity but I wouldn't say the OW is innocent either.

YABU
The only person responsible for their fidelity is the spouse. No-one can make them shag someone who is not their marital partner.

And the reasons n posters say this is because the OW gets shit loads of verbal abuse, and so people are trying to redirect to who is really responsible, the H.

Nah. Plenty give their husbands what they deserve. As they should.
And you’re right, no one can make a husband cheat.
But why be an OW - what do you think women get out of it? The idea of a relationship with somebody who’s married is repellant. He’s a cheat for starters, you’d be living a lie of a relationship. So it must be the thrill of being “picked”, worth him risking marriage for. It’s pretty grim.
Not the same as the man but definitely part of the problem.

"the other woman owes you nothing"

I have said this myself... but I don't mean that the OW has no responsibility, nor that it is ''ok'' to shag someone's else's husband.

What I mean is that in my experience, the 'OW' views all men as ''fair game'' and justifies her conduct on the basis that she isn't party to the marriage hence has no responsibility for upholding the vows made between husband and wife, or that the wife must have been defective in some way so she's correcting some existential wrong... For this reason, she generally feels no guilt for her conduct, hence one is generally very disappointed if one looks to the OW to take some responsibility or accountability for the carnage left in her wake. Any 2 parties who engage in an affair are equally culpable, both have no respect for other human beings, societal limits, common decency, the sanctity of family or the impact on children who are often seen as acceptable collateral damage. I don't think I've ever seen someone as defiantly and resolutely entitled as the OW my ex had an affair with.. ''having him'' was like her god given right... how dare I suggest I had any claim to my husband... I ought to move on and grow up ... maybe she's unusual but I'll admit it shocked me..

I cannot imagine any context in which I would willingly have an affair .. or engage in the web of deceit needed to cover it up. Society sometimes seems so devoid of morals these days..

Society sometimes seems so devoid of morals these days..

Affairs aren't new.

Yup. Helen of Troy might like a word on that one. So would Henry VIII, Mary Shelley, Catherine the Great, Cleopatra, Sophia Dorothea of Celle, and Napoleon. To name but a few.

But why be an OW - what do you think women get out of it?

Have you noticed how nobody ever asks this question of a man?

She gets sex and intimacy out of it and whatever those things mean for her in particular. Maybe she's fallen for lies and is in love. Maybe she's in a bad place and it's making her feel good. Maybe it makes her feel sexy. Maybe she's desperate and has nobody else and feels terribly guilty. Maybe she gets off on shagging married men. Maybe the sex is satisfying and she isn't concerned beyond that.

Who the hell knows? It's sex and intimacy, it occurs for all sorts of reasons. But only when it's a woman are we so flummoxed as to why she wants it even if it's illicit.

We might not approve of a married man having an affair but we're never utterly perplexed as to what on earth he gets out of it.

Women: cheap sluts and yet with no sex drive...

It's context. If the cheating partner lied, and claimed they were single and led someone alone. Then the affair parter is not at fault, they've been lied to and messed around too.

But if the affair partner knows that they're shagging someone who is married. Then yes, there is blame towards both parties.

I don't think I've ever seen someone as defiantly and resolutely entitled as the OW my ex had an affair with

I don't mean this nastily, and I'm sorry for what you're suffering, but your husband, who promised to love and be true to you, must surely be at least as entitled as she is.

What I don't find acceptable is when the OW believes she's automatically blameless since he's the only married one, and so the situation with his wife and family aren't her concern.

A man trying to cheat isn't going to hurt his wife nearly as much as if he actually does it, so the OW is to blame for enabling his actions that'll potentially cause a lot of pain.
Cheaters and their willful enablers have always had my disrespect but becoming a feminist made me even more repelled by the thought of screwing over another woman to get some attention from a man.

A man trying to cheat isn't going to hurt his wife nearly as much as if he actually does it, so the OW is to blame for enabling his actions

Welcome to the Rapist Apologists' and Hateful Misogynists' Ball. Your table's waiting. Yes, I've checked the year on the calendar and apparently it really is still taking place, with depressing regularity, in 2022.

I fucking despair. This horrible shit bothers me more than the idea that humans don't always shag who they're supposed to.

becoming a feminist made me even more repelled by the thought of screwing over another woman to get some attention from a man.

You are no feminist.

A man trying to cheat isn't going to hurt his wife nearly as much as if he actually does it, so the OW is to blame for enabling his actions

Wow

The poor menz aren't responsible for their actions then. It's the hateful women's fault for giving them the opportunity.

🤦‍♀️

I don't find it at all difficult to come up with reasons that a man or woman would have an affair with someone else's partner.

Just like I don't find it difficult to posit reasons that people break and enter, scam, shoplift, joyride, drink drive, bully, murder or assault people.

There's a difference between understanding why someone might want to do something, and believing that they are therefore morally justified in doing it.

People who pursue their own selfish desires with no concern at all for the impact on others are terrible human beings.

“My husband won’t cheat only me because he’s lacking in opportunities”. Jesus fucking Christ, I thought it was supposed to be the other woman that’s lacking in self esteem? Any wife that thinks that’s a normal sentiment isn’t exactly overflowing with it either.

that’s without touching on the fact that it’s not the responsibility of women to be the keepers of grown ass adult men.

People who pursue their own selfish desires with no concern at all for the impact on others are terrible human beings.

Sure, but equally there's a world of difference between lack of concern about the impact on a stranger and lack of concern about the impact on your partner for x many years, who you've been intimate with, possibly had children with, stood up and vowed your commitment to.

Have you noticed how nobody ever asks this question of a man?
Only because most of us are women and our husbands and wives leave us for women.

She gets sex and intimacy out of it and whatever those things mean for her in particular. Maybe she's fallen for lies and is in love. Maybe she's in a bad place and it's making her feel good. Maybe it makes her feel sexy. Maybe she's desperate and has nobody else and feels terribly guilty. Maybe she gets off on shagging married men. Maybe the sex is satisfying and she isn't concerned beyond that

Well exactly. No one is entitled to feel good/sexy/satisfied at someone else’s expense. Of course people do cheat or overlap relationships it’s human nature. But it’s not a good thing any more than any other selfish behaviour.

A man trying to cheat isn't going to hurt his wife nearly as much as if he actually does it, so the OW is to blame for enabling his actions
I would find the trying just as hurtful as the doing.

Well exactly. No one is entitled to feel good/sexy/satisfied at someone else’s expense.

No one has said she's entitled to it. People were just pointing out that, for the most part, women who shag married men get many of the same things out of it as women who shag unmarried men.

Some people think it is acceptable for the OW to have an affair with a MARRIED man, the other women is not in the wrong??

By that logic the OW can relax in knowledge that her man can sleep with his ex whenever??

This is 2022 feminism 😂

I agree OP. And I don't think people only say that when the woman is trying to avoid blaming her husband.

I also think that for the most part, wives don't blame the other woman if she also was duped, though in some cases I imagine they may be angry enough that they don't believe that even when they probably should.

Because he is the one who owes you, he is the one who promised not to shag around, not her. He is the one who made vows to you, and created a family based on those. Because men are not some puppy who you can entice with a treat and some nice worlds- they are adults who make a choice to fuck up their family. Whilst I don't understand why a woman would choose to start a relationship with someone already in one, you also don't know what shite she's being fed. That they're not understood, loved, they're not a priority anymore to their wife, etc.

Lets all go and bag some married men then woohoo 💕

My God how can your own husband be held accountable to the same level as OW?. I do not understand and never will there's nothing equal OW will not deal with your kids or the aftermath.

Who made the vows? Your husband did. I think the anger is often misplaced or the wife knew full well and choose to turn a blind eye!

I would love for a man to start this same thread and read comments from thei POV!

Conclusion - They’re both to blame then. Got there in the end