Asking my 14yo to go to bed at 10

[Tereo]

My 14 yo is on holidays and starting a sailing camp with his friends today. We spent yesterday getting ready buying him wetsuit etc.
We haven't told him or his brother to go to bed since school broke up and they've had some very late nights in recent days so last night I told him to go to bed at 10 in preparation for early start/sailing today.
He was straightaway so rude and refused to go saying it was demeaning to be asked to go to bed and said 'fuck you'... We lost our cool roared at him to get to bed and took his phone out of his room for night to recharge in kitchen.
As soon as we went back to bed, he went down to get phone and stay up. We left him as not sure how you make a 14 do something??
He went to bed at 12 in the end feeling very righteous that we d been in the wrong asking him to go to bed.
What do I say today?

Yep. Entitled little brat.

I would treat him as the (nearly) adult he is and have a conversation with him. I would tell him exactly how disrespectful I found it to be sworn at in anger and make it very clear that we don't do that in our house - ever.

I would certainly remind him of the economic levers I have over him, like my ability to fund his sailing, PlayStation and phone. But I wouldn't immediately now remove those from him. I think that might be a more valid tactic yesterday. I think you've left it too late.

We have apps in our teens’ phones that means we can lock the phone remotely removing access except for emergency calls to a couple of numbers. Let him have the phone during the sailing course but remove it each afternoon afterwards and hand it back the following morning for the rest of the week. No PlayStation either. Your choice is to step up and parent like the hard job it is or take the easy life anc raise an entitled shit. Choice is yours.

There is no way I would cancel a sailing course.
No doubt its paid for?
Not a chance I would cancel it.

But you are on the wrong path to have allowed him back on the phone and up till 12 after telling you fxxk off.

You need to go down hard or you have a lot worse facing you.

Ask him what he has to say for himself after his behaviour last night?

If you don't get a profuse apology about being told to F off, then he is off it until YOU decide otherwise.

If he genuinely is contrite, give 7 days.

But I would say to him clearly and calmly that if he ever speaks to me like that again, the PS4 will be the least of his problems.

As parents we teach our children how to treat us.

I have 4 and the older two are boys.
If they told me to f off at 14, they wouldn't have heard the end of it.

Do not accept it.
Make a big deal about f off, that is very aggressive.

The arguing about the bed time an phone is par for the course, but being told to F off, is another matter altogether.

I wouldn't have dreamed of telling my parents to "fuck off" at 14 years old, because I knew if I did there would rightfully be heavy consequences. I was quite a well behaved teen to be honest so the consequences of angry parents would have been enough to stop me from saying it in the first place, but the threat of having my phone removed was always something hovered over my head. They paid for my phone (albeit a little blackberry in the early 2000s, but nevertheless, they paid so they decided when I could use it). What were your son's consequences for swearing at you and then doing exactly what you asked him not to? Has he received any? Now is the time to be firm or this will just get worse. It's a good idea to implement removing his PS4 but something should have been said/done at the time. An instant enforcement that he can directly link to the shitty way that he spoke to you.

I would have gone downstairs and demand he hand the phone over right now or he loses it for good.

Why are you tip toeing around a 14 year old? You seem afraid of hurting his feelings almost.

Don't 'ask his opinion' on the consequences you're about to give him...YOU'RE the parent!!... YOU'RE in control!! No wonder he treats you with such disrespect.

Also, he’s 14. It is not demeaning for him to be parented by his parents, which includes things like going to bed. You need to be having a conversation with him about general expectations, as well as this specific instance of swearing.

I wouldn't start a battle over physically removing his phone but I would turn the wi-fi off at a set time every night (although that might inconvenience you as much as him ) and explain to him that the level of disrespect he demonstrated will not be tolerated again. This is the time when sticking with (appropriate) boundaries really matters

Au contraire. It works a treat. Parenting is not synonymous with dictatorship.

Oh, sweet Jesus. I have a 15yo and a 13yo, as well as a 25yo. If any one of mine came out with the words "Fuck You", their arses would be catapulted into orbit before they had a chance to take a breath, believe you me.
I'm the sort of mother who has a legendary death stare, so the idea that they might even utter the words "Fuck You" is just unthinkable.

That said, I do actually understand the need to parent teens in a way that we might not be very prepared for. They can blindside us, and act in ways which make us feel like we're having to parent 'on the hoof'.
As other pp have said, picking our battles is important. I'm not sure I would have died on the hill of a 10pm bedtime. But that's not a criticism, all our kids are different - my DS can regulate his own sleep time without any input from me, but my DD would definitely need me to be on top of it.

Just sending you a bit of solidarity, OP. There are none of us getting this right all of the time, and most of us are just winging it.

I am a firm believer in ‘go hard, go early’.

I would return the wetsuit and cancel or postpone sailing. And I would fully expect that to work and that behaviour would never be repeated again.

If that is a step too far for you, I would buy him a brick phone with the absolute bare minimum in terms of texting and no internet access since you think it is important he has a phone to arrange lifts. No nice phones until a sincere apology followed by a period of improved behaviour.

This is a good book listed below. It's easy to read too. At 14 he needs boundaries but also you need to respect what's important to him too. Otherwise if you are seeming to totally disrespect his important stuff it'll always end in a row. Like if you say 'stupid' playstation. His phone is his link to his friends and the world. So what his phone means to him is very different to what your phone means to you.
"How to Talk so Teens will Listen & Listen so Teens will Talk"
amzn.eu/d/hAPPYWH

Of course him saying Fuck You needs to be addressed. If a stranger said that to you in the supermarket you'd be utterly shocked. He needs to apologise and know that you demand to be spoken to with respect no more than anyone does.

I had a very similar situation with my 15yr old this weekend but it was because he had football try outs that could really change the course of his future. On the way to training I told him he had been really out if order & I was hurt at howhe spoke to me. He was still full of piss & vinegar. He obviously listened. When he got home he asked to speak to me in the kitchen. Said he felt awful all day. I got a sorry, a hug & an I love you. I personally don't think taking phones or devices work to solve anything. Pick a calm time & tell him how his behavior made you feel.

My 13yo’s phone goes into restricted mode at a reasonable time on school nights and similar nights. She gets a later time on weekends and holidays. I highly recommend using a Downtime schedule.

we used to also block nighttime access to things like the tv, but she has shown she can be trusted to use other things wisely as they lack the same addictive pull

we always explain that we can’t make you sleep, but the phone is done for the night and everyone else is going to bed and you must be quiet.

I wouldn’t cancel the class, but I would ground from the phone during free time.

He is 14…. A child. You are the parents. It is your job to set the boundaries and rules. He now thinks he has won and will see you as pushovers so unless you come down hard his behaviour will become worse. He has been very disrespectful and rude. Let him go sailing but the moment you pick him up you take his phone until you drop him off the next day and i would be removing all his other electronics and gaming devices for at least a week. Let him sulk. If he does not apologise and behaves like a spoilt brat the time gets extended. You need to take control.

I'd cancel the trip. Take the hit on the money (if you can). He'll never do it again.

Whilst he was very rude, i would say 7 days for a first time is quite a long time, i would go with 48 hours first. Good Luck OP

When he’s back from his lovely day out I’d be sitting him down and telling him his behaviour last night was unacceptable and the only reason he got to go out today was because you had already spent the money.

I’d ask him why he thought he had the right to be so disrespectful towards his parents who were sorting out an expensive recreational activity for him. I would be genuinely asking him this and I’d hope it would prompt a spontaneous apology.

If it didn’t, I’d be telling him that his phone from now on will not be allowed in his room after 9pm and that his PS is being confiscated for 48 hours. Take a couple of the cables as you can take them out with you and he can’t just hunt for say a missing remote!

I would be making sure he knows that the attitude and behaviour is unacceptable, when he no longer lives under your roof he can behave as badly as he wants but until then, you expect at least a basic level of courtesy towards the people that house and clothe him, and pay for his gadgets and leisure activities.

Then I’d leave him to stew and think about whether he wanted to apologise or dig his heels in. At his age I was bugger and would have definitely dug my heels in!

Sorry but you and his Dad are being pathetic. You simply cannot allow him to be so disrespectful. Cancel the sailing. He needs to learn that he cannot speak to you like that and that his rude behaviour has a consequence.

Have you never disciplined him before?

What is the "natural consequence" of telling someone to F off?

The natural consequence of telling someone to fuck off is that the trust is damaged. So this is a good talking point for the OP and her son.