To think that the NHS had lost the plot over breastfeeding?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10892531/NHS-accused-putting-babies-harm-advice-trans-women-wanting-breastfeed.html

It feels like some kind of bizarre experiment - except it's babies who are being used for affirmation.

Am I being gaslit here?

Do you have a link to support your claim that “It’s not a fetish - autogynephilia exists but in a very small number of people […] in the sense you’re describing, it’s not common”?

I believe the opposite, I think most males who identify as trans as adults are AGP. But that’s just my opinion and I wouldn’t state it as fact without any sources. Do you have any?

And I am a 'foreigner' technically. I am not right wing though. What is your point?

Where did I say there were? It's almost as if I've stated several times that I don't think transwomen should be attempting to breastfeeding

You're just swerving away from the point I've made several times that it is offensive to claim transwomen are doing this as sexual fetish and that it is therefore a safeguarding issue, as a blanket statement.

@ForestFae Yes, except you had a natural problem producing a natural product in your natural body. There is a difference.

If it isn’t a fetish, why would TW do this? It is obviously not for the benefit of the infant….

You're just swerving away from the point I've made several times that it is offensive to claim transwomen are doing this as sexual fetish and that it is therefore a safeguarding issue, as a blanket statement.

I am not swerving away from any point. Strange that you think I am.

I am also not denying there are males out there who are not doing it as a 'sexual fetish'. However, even if it is not a fetish, are these males doing it to benefit the child? Or themselves?

In fact, I have not been making ANY blanket statements except to question whether any of this is of benefit for the infant?

In fact, I have not been making ANY blanket statements except to question whether any of this is of benefit for the infant?

And I AM saying that any person who is creating the risk of potential harm to their child IS a safeguarding issue!

You're just swerving away from the point I've made several times that it is offensive to claim transwomen are doing this as sexual fetish and that it is therefore a safeguarding issue, as a blanket statement.

No, you're swerving from Helleofabore's point. She's not saying the safeguarding issue is transwomen being fetishists. She's saying that the safeguarding issue is transwomen being encouraged to breastfeed when a) we don't know what's in the secretions they're producing, and b) whatever it is they cannot produce enough to feed a baby adequately.

It's nothing to do with the Daily Mail or foreigners the bigots you call friends. It's about nourishing newborns. Can you answer her questions?

Red flags should be flying all over the place about trans women who try to chest feed. They are not putting their babies first and a tiny baby shouldn't be used to validate someone's gender identity.

It's not a fetish - autogynephilia (sp?) exists but in a very small number of people.

Estimated 3% of men. Obviously not all of them take it as far as transitioning.

Exactly my question.
What are the benefits/potential benefits for a brand new baby?
With known and unknown risks how do you justify this experimentation on babies?
Can anyone give a single reason why this would be preferable to milk bank or formula? One that doesn't include trans person, just the helpless baby?

@JustTheOneSwan I know women who couldn't produce much breast milk and mainly formula fed, but still kept up some breastfeeding time for the bonding they felt it gave them to baby. I personally do not find bottle feeding less bonding than breastfeeding but I know that some women do.

100%

Babies in NICU are closely monitored, an irregular heartbeat would be quickly identified. Like babies in NICU are often put to sleep prone, which is not advised for other babies.
Different situations different advice

Sorry, do you mean the adult or baby benefits from bonding?
If you mean baby, wouldn't the risk of harm from known/unknown dangers of huge doses of Domperidone plus cross sex hormones plus testosterone blocker outweigh any benefit the baby may get from bonding?
Benefits of chest over bottle feeding for Baby?

This is so fucking stupid.

The only people BF a baby should be those who gave birth to the baby. Anyone else is doing it purely for their own selfish demands and validation. They should not be offered any drugs. They should be told “no”, which is a word that seems to never be used these days for fear of upsetting or offending a minority group who spend their entire existence crying about how hard done by they are.

Maternity wards are understaffed and underfunded. Why the fuck would we make that worse by having staff have to go and console someone who has, for example, demanded drugs so they can live out their fantasy even though it will never be enough to sustain a baby and the health risks are unknown.

I’d love bigger boobs, sure I’ll go cry to the NHS about it and hopefully they’ll give me them for free. Meanwhile someone who needed an operation for breast cancer can wait while I take their spot. Because apparently healthcare is no longer about providing services to keep people alive and healthy, but being an emotional support blanket for people who will never have “enough” and nothing will ever be good enough.

We could absolutely pioneer science over the next 20 years and end up with a situation where transwomen can carry babies and breastfeed, have all the surgery possible to make them feminine and look exactly how they want to… what about women, though? Doubt we’ll have the anywhere near same treatment.

Stop this absolute bullshit now.

Yes @LunaLights - there the only thing that is important.
What is the benefit to the baby?

I don't care whether transwoman are taking drugs to induce lactation because they're fetishists, fantasists or anything else.

There is no benefit to the baby.

I don't know floralarrangement, you engaged with me here reassuring us that no one was calling us all 'homophobes'. Yet have maintained that ' And that it is reminiscent of the cries that gay men shouldn't be allowed to have children because it's also a safeguading issue, which were based in homophobia. '

You have not really explained how your claim is NOT making the connection that anyone discussing safeguarding issues (safeguarding in the wider sense of the word and not just sexual abuse) of males demanding to breastfeed infants is reminiscent of homophobia. Despite your assures that 'we' (those who are discussing the wider safeguarding aspects) are not being called homophobes.

Because I read your statement as absolutely you are stating that people discussing the safeguarding issues around males attempting to suckle an infant as using the same rhetoric as those who were homophobic.

People blocking those homosexuals having or adopting or fostering a child on the basis of being a homosexual person is homophobic.

People discussing that no male should be putting their own needs ahead of an infant's needs and demanding treatment or even demanding acceptance for them to feed an infant from their own nipple is not the same.

In adoption, the child is being providing a home.

In the feeding, where is any benefit to the infant?

I am very happy to make a blanket statement that no male should be encouraged or assisted to do this until there is some very very clear and indisputable evidence that it has benefits for that child over formula milk or a breastmilk donation from another female who is expressing that milk as a consequence of being pregnant.

I do and will continue to dispute that people making similar statements are coming at it from a similar prejudice as 'homophobia'.

If you see homophobia or transphobia on this thread or any thread, report those posts and if they are indeed phobic, they will be deleted.

The only people BF a baby should be those who gave birth to the baby. Anyone else is doing it purely for their own selfish demands and validation.

Well, to be fair, shared breastfeeding is a thing in many cultures.

But I know what you mean.

Yes but, for clarification for other users, those who are sharing breastfeeding have had a child themselves, hence lactating.

Ie it’s not some weird Frankenstein experiment so make some random adult feel more validated with no benefit to the baby.

It's repulsive. I wish the LGB would ditch the fetish riven, largely heterosexual contingent within the Alphabet community. The only reason the proponents and practitioners of these revolting procedures are leant any legitimacy, is because they are force teamed with a group of people with the legitimate interest of seeking to protect the right to live in peace with their sexual orientation. Nothing these "chest feeders" want is in the interests of the baby or wider society.

I think that men attempting to replicate breastfeeding should be illegal and considered child abuse.

Also, the motive is to help ensure the baby is properly fed and won’t starve. Not that the other woman wants to use breastfeeding as a way to feel “like a real woman”

I wouldn't go this far. Nothing to stop any father putting his baby to his nipple to simulate the experience if he wants. They often comfort suck from the breast when they're not hungry.

I don't think we should be spreading the idea that it's in any way a substitute for actual breastfeeding though.

Exactly. Especially so as formula often isn’t a choice available to them for safety and/or logistical reasons.

Formula is available here, as well as a million different types of bottles, teats, pumps etc where a partner can breastfeed and the other partner can bottle feed and thus feel included. Or both partners can bottle feed if breastfeeding isn’t a naturally occurring option.

There really is absolutely no excuse for it. It is purely for vanity and validation.