Can our wedding venue do this??? Any lawyers?!

[RedWineRage]

Posting here for traffic....and also some perspective/help/ideas!

Getting married this summer. Reception venue is stately home-type place which is open to the public but also does weddings, has done successfully for years. Top listed wedding venue in various magazines etc and very good reviews. So - not some shady outfit.

Email out of the blue this week - all rather breezy - due to several incidents at recent events, just to let you know we will no longer be serving red wine at all, with immediate effect.

But don't worry, we'll just swap that out for rosé in your drinks package.

What???

My mum only drinks red wine. Several family members prefer red wine. We planned to have beef as a main.

Totally unacceptable, right? They appear to be relying on some woolly clause in the contract around "it's a historic building, changes may need to be made to your wedding plan that are out of our control due to operational reasons" etc.

We're genuinely considering trying at short notice to get another venue, and trying to claim money back through small claims. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on how likely we are to be successful?

My mum can't not have an alcoholic drink at my wedding. Sorry I'm ranting and probably not being very rational.

Perspective and advice welcome!!

That would frustrate me too. I think you just need to adjust from perfect to really amazing. There are white wines, which ‘go’ with beef. I’d say something full bodied.

Yep. I don’t actually like red. I’d find it really odd to only have a choice of red (or rosé) at a meal.

Can they do it? Probably. I would imagine so. If it’s historical it is likely to be listed and being listed comes with tons of contractual clauses.

Disagree somewhat about it not being a "material change", IF the formal sit-down menu has wine matched to courses (and those include beef or lamb) it's a material change to the menu chosen (if chosen already or highly anticipated given many people want a beef course/option), and makes a difference to that menu. There is definitely haggle room here (even if cancelling the whole contract/getting the deposit back and moving venue would be trickier given the contract get-out clauses). Remember, the booked food and wine is often the most expensive part of the booking, by a country mile.

You are getting married in this venue presumably because it is a beautiful historic building that people have worked hard to preserve. Clearly red wine has at some point, and no doubt repeatedly, been spilt at events and is ruining said building's carpets/soft furnishings/paintings/woodwork. In order to continue preserving it for future generations they are no longer allowing red wine to be served at events. I used to work in the wine industry - there are most definitely white and rose wines that will pair with beef. Or serve something other than beef. But FFS, this is so far into the world of first world problems.

Btw I don't personally think beef or lamb (or venison...) have to be served with red wine (or indeed any wine) for myself, but the point is whether this is a reasonable expectation given the type and cost of meal and drinks package, menu, nature of the event (wedding), and the original agreement. I'd say it is a reasonable expectation.

(Disclaimer: Not a lawyer; good a writing letters-before-legal-action though and getting a result, including for non-trivial matters involving 4-figure sums.)😉

My advice is (still) to grumble in a legalish sounding way (IMO put Without Prejudice at the top of the letter, and do it in writing not by email sent by recorded or whatever it's called now - they will realise you mean business) and try to get a not-insignificant discount (and advise everyone in advance that there is no red wine due to the historic and delicate nature venue with their alternative options, it's not as though you are likely to have already explicitly told them there is).

I was once a guest at a wedding where another pissed guest managed to spill red wine all over one of the bridesmaids in her beautiful dress. She ended up crying. So did the bride. This may not be the worst thing.

Hmm. Enjoyment is a major feature of a contact to deliver a wedding. Introducing a new contractual term after you booked proscribing the serving of red wine at your wedding is an onerous restriction potentially limiting the ability of the contact to deliver enjoyment.
On this basis, if you cannot persuade the venue to serve red wine, you should be able to cancel your booking without a financial penalty, provided you make it clear to the venue in advance that serving red wine is integral to the overall enjoyment of your wedding day.

I don’t think they do, just sticking the boot in for sport. Probably don’t get out much.

The venue is free to change its rules for future bookings.

In this case they entered a contract that included red wine. Being a historical venue isn’t a reason not to provide customers with what they paid for.

It’s up to any venue to risk assess The provision of a service before they enter a contract to provide the service.

They may have insurance but when items with historic value are damaged, they are damaged irreparably the majority of the time. The insurance money isn’t going to replace it. Items with significant historic value are much more important than have a glass of wine. The historic value of items clearly means nothing to you further than a backdrop for your wedding but I’d imagine their cultural value is of huge significance and thankfully the staff are protecting it.

It sounds like they have covered it in your agreement so there is nothing you can really do.

Agree and some of the snobbery on this thread about wines is hilarious.

OP would also not get far with small claims either.

It’s not covered at all.

The clause the OP referenced talks about changes that are outside the control of the venue.

Changing their rules about red wine is the definition of something that is inside the venues control!

Did you honestly ask for Lawyers perspective on a thread about the withdrawal of red wine whilst being given a replacement...lawyers ?

Jesus Christ...there are people that are dying.

Re small claims court, you can’t possibly know that without seeing her contract.

@TeaKlaxon - I think you'll find the OP entered into a contract that said 'we can change what we like on a whim'. I'm almost 100% sure that the contract will not cover a list of drinks that may or may not be served.

I think the venue are not being fair (like a lot of posters on here!). They are probably charging a hefty sum hiring out their historic buildings for weddings. While I appreciate red wine can cause stains etc, they should have mentioned this at the time of booking. It’s ok to do this for future bookings (although I bet it will put plenty of people off). Surely they could use rugs and table covers to prevent stains anyway?

@TeaKlaxon she didn’t say it said outside of the venues control only, she said due to ‘operational reasons’ A change in policy to ban red wine due to persistent damage to historic objects sounds like an operational reason.

Having managed lots of these historic country properties, the majority of the time the wedding business is run separately so if the main house conservator or manager has banned red wine, that would be passed onto the wedding business.

This would irritate me too. Though sadly I suspect there’s not much you can do about it. I’d be whinging loudly to the venue though, and asking what they’re planning to do to compensate you for the disappointment/inconvenience.

And white or rose wine with beef is just wrong. If that makes me a wine snob I’m happy to be one.

Yup, and as someone above said, I'd be embarrassed not to be able to offer both as host.

Well, if you're getting married at a really stately posh place, you have to accept their rules, which I think red wine spillages must cause so much damage for them. So long as they provide other drinks, I really would.not be cancelling a whole wedding over one beverage option, all sounds rather blown out of proportion!!!

😂 bridezilla! Is that you?!

Relax, mumsy can try another drink. There are loads of options outside of red wine.

And I'm sure your guests will cope with rose or white. I think you need a little perspective.

You seriously need to get a grip here.
don't take your own it will all end up ruining the day.
it's no big deal.
count your blessings.🌈

I’m with you OP and I’m surprised so many people are OK with what the venue has said. I’d be really annoyed and no red wine would definitely have spoiled our day. We have loads of family members who only drink red, including dh and I know they wouldn’t have enjoyed the day as much if we couldn’t have the wine we wanted. I don’t think you’ll get far in small claims court, but I personally would be looking for an alternative venue if you could afford it.

The OP hasn’t said anything that implies that that is what the contract says.