To feel uncomfortable about well-off women with new Ukrainian women cleaners?

[Upsizer]

A lot of my well off acquaintances have new Ukrainian female cleaners and I feel very uncomfortable about it. They talk quite openly about wanting to support the women but have made no attempt to understand the women’s professional backgrounds and I feel it’s both virtue signalling but also somewhat inappropriate. I know the government has put nothing in place to support these trained professionals back into work but to me this smacks of virtue signalling while using vulnerable people as cash in hand staff. AIBU?

I'm not now, but I have been.

As long as they are paying a fair wage and they aren't being forced into it then what is the problem, exactly?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a cleaner. I am uncomfortable when people pay cash in hand for this work. And I am uncomfortable that several of my friends have told me that they are doing this to help refugees - if they really wanted to help shouldn’t they be paying them through an agency or similar?

And what the hell is wrong with being a cleaner?!
What if the women were cleaners in Ukraine?
What if their professional certificates need to be converted, topped up or require further language or professional training to be able to work in the same role in the UK so effectively they can't practise what they did for a while? What if they want a freelance, flexible job like cleaning?!

Wow you really do look down on cleaners don't you?

You make cleaning sound like it's the lowest job in the world and that only people with no pride in themselves, would ever deign to do it 😡

Oh, are you uncomfortable that they might not be paying tax on their earnings? Is that it?

Why didn't you just say so? 🙄

Why do women get flack for employing cleaners? Why not men? Or does their magical penis suck up all their dirt and mess?

I'm pretty sure that a Ukrainian professional with reasonable English could walk into any job here - we have a massive shortage of skilled professions like nurses, doctors, solicitors, teachers, IT etc. There's currently vacancies for Head of the Met Police AND possibly by the time I finish writing the post, Prime Minster. I'd be happy for any Ukrainian to take that role and Boris Johnson to do my vacuuming.

I’m a cleaner with a decent degree and a professional background. I do it as the hours are convenient around kid’s school hours. I can schedule an hour off to walk dog etc. I will go back to professional work in the future but there’s nothing wrong with cleaning.

There is a massive shortage of cleaners these days. I have a couple of clients who pay me travel time and mileage as it’s outside of the area I’m willing to work in as they have no options unless they want to clean themselves of course!

And if well-off man offers a Ukrainian man a job on a building site or similar, is that allowed?

Or is only exploitative when women are involved?

This has really made me think because my instinct is to be very uncomfortable with this but I can't quite articulate why.

Ater giving it some thought I've decided that a lot of people saying these refugees should be grateful to have a job probably wouldn't dream of cleaning someone else's loo. I think that's probably what makes me feel uncomfortable.

i have no idea of my cleaners background, she may well have a degree and more from her home county. But as she doesn't speak much/any english, we get by via WHATSAPP (i assume she uses translate) and pointing at things.

(i also suspect many lawyers/doctors would also speak some english though? )

Provided they’re being paid correctly and treated with respect, I really don’t see an issue here. My Gran helped parents of one of her pupils find cleaning jobs when they first came to the UK because they couldn’t speak English and cleaning was an easy job while they learnt.

As long as they’re paying them the market rate

Cash in hand doesn't mean people are evading tax.

Even if they are, probably best that the refugees have some money for, y'know, food and stuff rather than worrying about a pittance in unpaid tax.

It's not the work these Ukrainian women are doing that matters, nor the wealth of their employers. It's whether they are being treated with compassion and respect, whether they are being paid a reasonable wages and provided with safe, secure accommodation, whether they are being supported in learning English, integrating in the UK and maintaining connections with their compatriots and their Ukrainian identity. And given the opportunity to move on when they are ready. That's what matters.

For 10-15 years my parents were involved with an organisation that rescued traffficked or enslaved women, mostly from the Phillipines. These women were refugees from the most appalling abuse, who took the chance to run away with nothing - not even shoes, sometimes. My parents would take one in at a time, give her a comfortable room with a door that she could lock and we could not, give her employment and an income, treat her with respect and take her to whatever appointments she needed. And helped her maintain her connections with the Philipino community. Yes, she worked as a maid - but we (the teen and adult children) we're not allowed to tell her what to do nor make work for her. We were expected to interact and converse and treat her like anybody else staying in our house.

After a few months or years, each of them moved on once she was ready to do so. I remember one had taken a hairdressing qualification while with us, got a job at a salon and a flat share with a friend.

These ladies kept in touch with my parents for years afterwards. Invited them to weddings and christenings, and to Leave toRemain parties and Citizenship parties.

I do not think helping these distressed women regain their dignity was in any way virtue-signalling or inappropriate. And they clearly did not think so, either.

It's not about what these women do, it's about how they are treated.

It's only exploitation if they are being forces to work and paid less than the legal wage.
No such thing as "only a cleaner"
How important do you think cleaning is in a clinical environment for example? I would say extremely important. You may not need a degree to be a cleaner but its an important job all the same

Surely, like literally any employer/employee relationship it's about someone having a need for something and someone else fulfilling that need.

Maybe some of these people are highly educated and cleaning is "beneath them", whatever that means. The fact is though is I bet if you actually asked any of them they would rather have the money to spend on food and stuff.

Yep, I hear you!

@lameasahorse where does the OP say people are posting on facebook about how wonderful they are?

"Talking openly" doesn't mean necessarily mean "shouting about it on social media" at all. It could mean just saying how they came to give a refugee a job when asked about it.

Let's face it, the government's response to this crisis has been woeful. If there are people out there willing to employ refugees then all power to them.

What’s wrong with being a cleaner?

I’ve been a cleaner

I've had cleaners for many years and they've all been Eastern European and self-employed. I don't particularly care if they paid their taxes or not, in the same way I don't ask my plumber to show me his tax records. I'd be happy to employ a Ukrainian refugee if I had to change cleaners now, why is that so terrible? And yes, it is helping them, since they will have no references, maybe no cleaning experience, perhaps little English, so they are offered a chance to start from zero.