To feel sad for Prince Harry

[OldManRivers]

Have been looking at the photos today of Harry in the car being driven from the airport in America back to his home. He looks so sad. It must be very difficult for him to attend a huge family occasion like that with his role drastically changed, and to see all of his family but now he's on the sidelines popping in so very sporadically.

Also I can't help but think he must feel sad to think his children won't grow up around their cousins, and extended family. Meghan doesn't have any family except her mother so they don't have any in America either.

Originally he and Meghan wanted to carry on being part of the royal machine and do appearances etc but also have some independence so it's not as though this life was their original plan, where it seems like they're sidelined and alienated. AIBU to think regardless of what's gone on it must be very hard for him to be in another country, away from his ailing grandmother who he is very close to, and feel like a bit of an outcast?

it then comes down to the very simple fact that The Queen employs these people to smear her grandson on her behalf

Do you think a 96 yo woman interviews everyone in PR, Press and Royal households? TThere will be a hierarchy

This is exactly what I've been saying. Posters keep insisting that the Lilibet birthday party must have been confirmed by people high up in the Palace, and I've asked at least twice if they think the Queen personally authorised a leak exploiting her baby great-great-grandchild and smearing her great-grandson, or if someone in the Palace leaked it without senior royals knowing. I don’t understand what this is about? Everything in the press about the party has been leaked by M&H staff or spokesperson as far as I’ve seen. Hairdresser, “facialist”, photographer, cake maker and that Omid bloke.

Do you think a 96 yo woman interviews everyone in PR, Press and Royal households? TThere will be a hierarchy so who specifically are you accusing?

“Either William is a complete gullible idiot who has no control over his own foundation, or Knauf was spying on Meghan and leaking stories about her under William's orders.”

Which is it? Or will you all ignore that question too?

I am not aware that I have ignored any questions from you - please can you point those out?

I have zero insight into the PW / JK scenario. However this same question applies directly further up the chain - to The Queen - either she is a complete gullible idiot who has no control over her monarchy, firm, family, disclosure etc - or she has run a highly sophisticated proactive PR machine implemented by her aids for at least the last 40 years briefing against Diana and her grandson PH from a child.

Which is it?

I've already explained. Surely you don't think the press can write all these stories without 'a royal source says'

Why isn't there a minimum middle ground to your last para DFOD? It's not either/or

i think M&H would need to sign off on what their photographer, cake baker et al have said. Why are you implying this has come from the palace?

Have you muddled up the posters?

Ref me - but quoting someone else?

No. I was referring to the last para of your post at 1613 about middle ground

I was talking to two posters, one after the other

He's a man who wanted a wife and kids, far away from the British press.

He got that.

Not sure what there is to feel sorry for?

All I know is that it's desperately sad to fall out with a formerly close sibling. I know because it happened to me. All this blether about Jason Knauf and leaks and PR... That suggests that William and Harry are two weak fools with no minds of their own.

And as you can see in this paragraph I was ref @JemimaPuddlegoose polarity on PW and applying it to the Queen.

What would a middle ground look like to you - that sometimes The Queen / PW have lost control of their employees and sometimes they are actually driving the briefings?

Does that make it any more palatable / acceptable of The Queen over the last 40 years has deliberately and repeatedly thrown members of her family under the bus and at other times uninstructed officials repeatedly do it under her watch off their own back for an unknown agenda?

Does that make it any more palatable / acceptable of The Queen over the last 40 years has deliberately and repeatedly thrown members of her family under the bus and at other times uninstructed officials repeatedly do it under her watch off their own back for an unknown agenda?

Only you are saying that repeatedly

I am saying she cannot know about every single press story, how it came about, briefings from 'a royal source'.
You want it black and white. It isn't like that, no one has said she has 'deliberately and repeatedly' thrown members of her family under the bus. The RF are a huge machine, protecting the RF basically.
You are trying to simplify things as 'the Queen is doing this or that', you seem to forget about the different factions, royal households KP and CH, men in grey suits, royal advisers, private secretaries. If you think a 96 yo woman is directing them, you are sadly mistaken. As I said many posts ago, I doubt she knows 10% of what goes on PR/press wise

I am not painting it black and white. I am drawing out and exploring your argument that’s it’s someone else - and has been for the past 70 years.

Has she held no power or oversight in her own monarchy over the last 70 years? Has she been powerless and helpless to flush out the rogue leakers or is she turning a blind eye or is she behind this public abuse, manipulation and smear of her own grandson and DIL?

All I know is that it's desperately sad to fall out with a formerly close sibling. I know because it happened to me
@derxa flowers

No.
The RF are a machine designed to protect itself

*“No.

The RF is a machine designed to protect itself”*

@Roussette

Which of the Qs of mine are you saying “No” to:

That The Queen has had no oversight across her own monarchy over the last 70 years so has been totally unaware of all the negative briefing / leaking against her own grandson for decades?

And/Or

That The Queen has been aware of all of the negative briefing / leaking against her own grandson for decades but is totally powerless and helpless to flush out these random and rogue people who she employs?

And/Or

That The Queen has turned a blind eye to the negative briefing / leaking by her employees of her grandson for decades?

Or

That The Queen is fully aware and behind the negative briefing against her own grandson for decades - although “hands off” - in order to protect the monarchy?

If your supposition is that the media is negatively briefed against PH by the RF machine for decades in order to protect the monarchy - you have to be able to explain The Queens role in this.

She is CEO of the firm / monarchy / RF machine - and having no oversight or control is equivalent to Richard Branson having zero awareness or control over decades and decades of negative briefing against a family member (child even!) working in his company.

It’s just not realistic and doesn’t add up that PH has had the RF machine briefing against him all his life and The Queen is unaware and/or incapable of managing this.

It’s just not realistic and doesn’t add up that PH has had the RF machine briefing against him all his life and The Queen is unaware and/or incapable of managing this.

It is. In terms of the institution, for the queen to keep her hands on the fairly complex and interweaving reins of family PR is quite a tall order, particularly as she has an extensive staff tasked with doing precisely this. 'PR' isn't one set of people operating ubiquitously as an umbrella protection outfit for the whole lot. It's a series of factions: different 'households' employ different staff, have divided loyalties, and it's fairly obviously more than frequently brief against each other.

Most of the stink surrounding these leaks and counter-leaks has been emanating from one particular direction: the one surrounding her eldest son from the time of his first marriage to the schism that's now opened up between his sons. The queen has managed to stand aside from this, despite periods of downturn in her popularity, because it's clear she's been guided by her own advisors throughout; sometimes even against her own inclination. Her return to London after Diana's death, her decision to pay tax (at an amount she thought she would), and, more recently, the stripping of Andrew's chief privileges and honorary positions when she clearly didn't want to, are suggestive of this. She's managed to maintain a positive image firstly by gaining the kind of respect that only comes with longevity (cf. certain veteran entertainers), and secondly, by perfecting the art of keeping her trap shut.

The Windsors are notorious for not being any too bright, but do have the advantage of being surrounded by a ring of PR steel. We've now seen exactly what they look like when that buffer is removed (Andrew, in deciding to go ahead with the interview regardless of others' reservations, also Harry). To say the least, the optics are not great, but take that PR away from any of the other family members and you can guarantee exactly the same thing will happen.

Would Charles sell his own granny (not to mention wife and kids) to the devil in order to gain the public adoration he seems to believe he deserves? In my estimation, yes.

“Would Charles sell his own granny (not to mention wife and kids) to the devil in order to gain the public adoration he seems to believe he deserves? In my estimation, yes.”
Has The Queen done this over 70 years?

I understand that it seems unpalatable to think this of a 96 year old - but she was 26, 36, 46, 56 etc

So this tax payer funded institution is out of control? Has no leadership and direction?