4-day working week: would it be extended to schools?

[Anothernameforallthis]

Just reading in the Guardian about a big UK project to trial a 4-day working week in a whole range of different businesses / places of employment. The benefits are expected to be clear: “The four-day week is generally considered to be a triple-dividend policy – helping employees, companies, and the climate. Our research efforts will be digging into all of this.”

If it is a great success, wouldn't we want to extend these benefits to school children and teachers? Give them a less stressful life, benefit the environment (one less day a week of the school run), more time to develop interests / hobbies / skills away from the classroom?

The kids are in school for the same length of time - just in 4.5 longer days. I am in Fife and we have this with our high schools too.

When it was brought in it was supposed to replace in service days but the teachers are out of the schools on Friday lunchtimes liked greased lightening (don't blame them I would too) and so there was no change to in service days.

The pupils and teachers seem pretty happy with it.

As it is high school you don't have a knock on effect with parents as no childcare needed but it would be a nightmare if this was introduced for primary.

Because school isn't childcare, it's education.

Many parents pay for childcare around school hours already - how would this be any different?

Well, obviously. And I do, already.

I won’t be earning any extra to cover the £100+ cost of childcare for two DC every week. Wherever this magical childcare is. How should I cover this cost?

And what about the children who get free school meals? I guess they shouldn’t eat one day a week. Maybe we should introduce ‘starving Wednesdays’. Or the kids who are vulnerable and safeguarded, who’s parents barely brought them in during lockdown because they don’t give two shiny shits about their children.

Our admissions of abused, bruised children went up after lockdown. Because they weren’t physically seen.

But no, let’s just live in an idealistic unrealistic bubble where all children’s lives will be enriched by going swimming and doing outdoor activities one day a week.

I can only assume that people either don't have school-aged children or are sahps with misty-eyed fantasies about enriching days out and #sourdoughbreadmakingwithmytinies

This.

I won’t be earning any extra to cover the £100+ cost of childcare for two DC every week. Wherever this magical childcare is. How should I cover this cost?

Clearly the 4 day week scenario would require more than just changing some working hours if it was to be roled out on a societal level. It's not inconscievable that such a change would factor in other things, such as better wrap around care.

I don't think schools should be 4 days - because it would be logisically difficult, but mainly because I don't think it benefits the children. However, e.g. a shorter day could be accomdated by good wrap around care and clubs.

I won’t be earning any extra to cover the £100+ cost of childcare for two DC every week. Wherever this magical childcare is. How should I cover this cost?

But equally, it WILL benefit loads of families who can save on childcare and spend more time together. Should everyone miss out because there are some families who won't benefit?

And what about the children who get free school meals? I guess they shouldn’t eat one day a week. Maybe we should introduce ‘starving Wednesdays’. Or the kids who are vulnerable and safeguarded, who’s parents barely brought them in during lockdown because they don’t give two shiny shits about their children.

They could access subsidised childcare on the extra day off.

Our admissions of abused, bruised children went up after lockdown. Because they weren’t physically seen. But no, let’s just live in an idealistic unrealistic bubble where all children’s lives will be enriched by going swimming and doing outdoor activities one day a week.

It's obviously horrendous that some children suffered through lockdown, but reducing the school week to four days doesn't mean the same thing will happen again. There will obviously have to be systems put in place to support working parents and these things take time, but it can definitely happen. After all, it works in other countries, so why shouldn't it work here?

I don't understand why the UK has never introduced decent, state-funded childcare, which is common in most of Europe. Here in France, school starts at 3 and is free for all from that point. Before that there are a huge number of different crèches, from fully state-run to semi-private to parentale (where parents get together to set one up) to fully private. Within the state system, the costs are means-tested, with the lowest income families paying maybe 50€ a month for a full-time place, with cost rising depending on how much you earn. There are also multitudes of nannies and childminders, with the costs subsidised in some way for most families. I don't know anyone here who needs to take the cost of childcare into account when making these decisions. Yes, it can sometimes be difficult to find a place but the restrictions are not down to cost.

Wow, where’s that 😊

I don't think you've understood this correctly. It's all about productivity.

@Sleepingsatellite1 - Austria.
School holidays are also long. this summer it’s July 1st- September 12th in most states. Ie 10 week summer holiday

They could access subsidised childcare on the extra day off.

People that can’t afford to feed their kids and rely on free school meals can’t afford subsidised childcare, when previously they weren’t paying for it. They certainly can’t afford ‘enriching’ activities.

People that don’t give a shit about their children aren’t going to take them or pay for subsidised childcare. They didn’t take them to school during lockdown.

My kids are not going to enjoy any activities if I can’t afford them because I’m shelling out on extra childcare I hadn’t factored in.

Also who's providing this subsidised childcare? There isn't enough childcare provision as it is.

It won't happen, but really there's no reason why it shouldn't. You could have schools open for 5 days but teachers doing overlapping days of 4 days a week each. If the will was there it could be done, but it isn't.

The childcare fairies! With their magic fucking wands of course!

And let’s not even start thinking about where the SEN kids or children with complex needs are going to go!

Tbh students have so much jiday and time off anyway I don't think they need anymore and parents could probably do with that extra day off 😂

Holiday not jiday!!

Or the kids who are vulnerable and safeguarded, who’s parents barely brought them in during lockdown because they don’t give two shiny shits about their children

We saw this at my school during the lockdowns. Despite being the first to receive a guaranteed bubble place not one of our vulnerable children were brought into school because school wasn't mandatory so the parents couldn't be arsed.

All of these children suffered hugely and are still struggling to catch up with their peers. Heartbreaking.

Schools don't bang on about attendance because they want to spoil your fun holiday, or insist your dangerously ill child crawls on bloody stumps into lessons. They stress its importance because they know only too well how poor attendance impacts children.

Just to remind people that it is a MN poster who has suggested this - it’s not on the cards in the real world!
Schools legally have to provide a certain amount of teaching days - they won’t close to children for one day a week, neither will they be able to afford any extra staff to cover teachers for a day as they can’t even afford glue sticks by the end of the year.

It's obviously horrendous that some children suffered through lockdown, but reducing the school week to four days doesn't mean the same thing will happen again

It absolutely does. There isn't the will or money to support these families. If there was the situation wouldn't be so dire.

These children are literally only supported within the school system. SS is chronically underfunded. CAMHS is on its knees. Take school away and they'd suffer even more.

The whole approach to social deprivation needs to change and that won't happen any time soon with endless govts wedded to neoliberal economics and a media that screams SCROUNGER all the time.

But equally, it WILL benefit loads of families who can save on childcare and spend more time together. Should everyone miss out because there are some families who won't benefit?

How can any family save on childcare in this scenario?

As always, I think we'd be asking the most vulnerable to suffer more hardship so that those better off could benefit. That's miserable.

Secondary school to some children is like a prison sentence. Bullies, learning difficulties, peer pressure, threats etc. One day a week less of it would be a relief.

Secondary school to some children is a really enjoyable experience where they learn interesting stuff, see their friends and establish themselves as individuals separate to their parents. One day a week less of it would be a loss.

I can guarantee that ASB in some areas would hugely increase if secondary school-aged children were free to wander around every Friday. We already see far more petty vandalism and fights in a few of our local parks during the school holidays.

The idea they'd all be with mummy and daddy enriching their lives is fucking hilarious.

Teachers get 100% pay for doing 140% work at the moment

We do a standard 27.5 hour week
in secondary which is the same as schools across the country. We start at 8.25 but my nephews (in another region) don’t start until 8.50. That’s how we make up the time!

@Heckythump1 the indie school I work in and my kids go to has an extra hour every day from Y3 up to Y13. Obviously at the moment they do 5 days. It gives them time to fit in sport every day and an hour for lunch which allows time for play / clubs / activities etc. Kids are tired but not wiped out or exhausted and don't need to rush off to loads of external clubs because they get so much onsite. If schools could be adequately funded and staffed to provide this across the board it would allow a great deal more to be included in the state provision and schools could operate 5 days with each staff member potentially only working 4 if that was what was deemed workable. I do think there is a massive divide in society with some eagerly hoping for more family time to fill with great activities and others for whom it would mean more unstructured time just hanging about / on screens etc whose parents are simply too busy working themselves to do anything else, and everything in between.

This is the old ideal of Harold Wilson isn’t it? We are supposed to be a rich country: it would make much more sense to distribute work and the rewards that come from all of us working. It would work for me if it included schools as I’d be more able to correct the relative lack of knowledge and learning that the modern education system is producing in my dc.

Perhaps <dares to whisper> those who can’t contemplate spending more time with their dc should think more carefully about having them (disabilities and SEN excluded)?