4-day working week: would it be extended to schools?

[Anothernameforallthis]

Just reading in the Guardian about a big UK project to trial a 4-day working week in a whole range of different businesses / places of employment. The benefits are expected to be clear: “The four-day week is generally considered to be a triple-dividend policy – helping employees, companies, and the climate. Our research efforts will be digging into all of this.”

If it is a great success, wouldn't we want to extend these benefits to school children and teachers? Give them a less stressful life, benefit the environment (one less day a week of the school run), more time to develop interests / hobbies / skills away from the classroom?

I’m a teacher and if the rest of the country were working a 4 day/ 30 hour week for their normal pay I would expect to be doing the same. I don’t think many teachers would stay in the profession if the working week was longer than other professions.

The curriculum is devised around having 5 days a week within which to teach it but the amount of time children currently spend in school is not based on any research into how long children need to learn specific things, school has for the most part just been built around the working week. If the school day was 4 days a week then the curriculum expectations could just be changed, some things could be removed from the curriculum or there could be an emphasis on more cross-curricula learning. As others have said there is a lot of wasted time in a school day and removing some aspects of the curriculum is unlikely to have a huge impact on student wellbeing, for example in primary school not having long projects on things like Florence Nightingale or the Romans or having days dedicated to practicing for the harvest festival/ end of year play etc. In secondary school students could do 8 instead of 9 GCSEs - changes like this wouldn’t have a huge detriment on educational standards and having a better work/school-life balance would mean the days spent in school could be more productive.

For my friend in California is the expectation. Friday is ‘home learning’ for kids.

Businesses are expected to support their workers to be at home where needed, shift systems, staggered days off, weekend working etc.

As a pp says, it’s a 4 day week in France for primary school. The day is long: My kids started at 8am and finished at 4:45… this did include a 2.25 hr lunch break though 🙄. This is for all ages 3-11 yrs. and yes, the littlest ones are exhausted at the end of it. Especially if they are also at the early morning garderie (starting at 7:30am) and after (in)-school care (finishing at 6:00pm) as well.

On the day off (usually Wednesday) the school is open for activities 0800-1200. These were offered in-school by the o
local authority (not teachers), offering tech / sports / games / crafts / etc very low-cost / means-tested. The afternoons have always been for sports / music / etc activities.

in theory French primary teachers only work 4 days too (but it spills over).

It certainly will be rolled out to schools eventually - even if its 20 years from now. Imagine the cost savings across the nation of closing every school a day a week.

A few points from another teacher who is in favour of the four day week.

1. School weeks are long, with lots of pressure, demands and additional homework. I would love for there to be a stronger emphasis on work-life balance, this needs to start at a young age and a four day week can help this to be achieved.

2. Happier children and teachers work harder and achieve more. There are so many weeks where Fridays almost feel life a write off because everyone is so tired. Yes there is the wider issue of the impact of an extra day on vulnerable children and I don't have the answers here.

3. School is not childcare and teachers are not childminders.

4. This could potentially ease up a lot of pressure and help the crisis of teachers leaving the role.

5. My DDs are preschool age and the idea of being able to have another day with them throughout their childhood makes me so happy.

6. Learning still happens at home with families.

7. The school system can be pretty depressing. It needs a big change up, why not start here?

8. It won't happen in a million years.

Yeah here where we are in France, it's 830 to 430 with a two hour lunch. My daughter goes to the cantine at lunch and enjoys the activities put on by pastoral staff. She has wednesdays off, does a couple of activities on that day and luckily I can arrange my job so I don't work Wednesday. In some ways it's better for parents having four longer school days. Means more time to work on the school days then hopefully one parent being able to be off on the Wednesday,

I've not heard any analyses of how it will affect the NHS. We have a massive shortage of nurses so not sure how the das which they would then not be working would be covered. Sounds like this would lead to clinics having to shut and massive further increases in waiting time? Am I missing something though?

For obvious reasons this would not work for emergency or medical services. People can't restrict heart attacks and babies to 4 day weeks. Or was tis sarcastic?

I think they said it wouldn't apply to e.g. education. In any case, I am not sure i'ts condusive to learning to try cram 5 days learning into 4. Children's brains need down time, time to process things etc.

Imagine the outrage if schools went to 4 days! Some schools already do enrichment days where children do sports, arts etc and teachers take their planning time then. I think that'd work well

It's not necessarily 'wasted' FFS. Children at school have far more interaction with other children and adults than home schooled children. They're not wasting their time having breaks. Or doing sport. Or going to the swimming pool. Or class trips. I bet you're not including this time in a home schooled child's 'study' time.

And re. your last point, who's paying for this extra day of childcare for all those who work in industries that can't go down to a four day week?

You can't glibly say 'parents will have to adapt' then hand them a bill for approximately 38 days of childcare.

It was definitely sarcasm.

I agree with you. School is not about productivity in the same way that work is.

All that would happen with reduced schooltime is that the attainment gap would widen further. It would be really detrimental to children from poorer backgrounds.

Well I work in the private sector and what this would mean is we'd be unable to take on as much work, thus having to make redundancies and generating less money for the exchequer, which would (at scale) impact on money for public services. That includes teachers salaries. So I don't see how this could work.

People can't restrict heart attacks and babies to 4 day weeks

Pretty sure all midwives and drs don't currently work 7 days a week, every week, although I imagine it does happen. But 4 day working weeks don't mean places are only open 4 days a week!

But 4 day working weeks don't mean places are only open 4 days a week!

No but their staffing bills will increase significantly

I think it's an exciting trial and none of the problems here are insurmountable if the will is there.

I think this article sums it up well in their drawbacks bit: theantiburnoutclub.com/4-day-work-week-benefits-drawbacks-detail/

“During the study in Iceland, the government had to hire more healthcare workers to cover the changing shift patterns at a cost of £24.2 million per year. If the UK decided to make four day working weeks the norm, the expense needed to cover an increase in healthcare workers would likely be eye-wateringly high.

For sectors that are already facing staff shortages, such as schools and healthcare, it would be practically impossible to introduce a four day work week without a huge recruitment drive. Workers in hospitality, emergency services, carers, business owners and many others would unlikely reap the benefits of a UK-wide shift in working days. Could this create animosity and inequality in the long run?”

I'd take a 4 day week and would most definitely include schools in that. A 3 day weekend, such as happens over a bank holiday weekend now, is so good for the soul in terms of rest, seeing family/ friends and spending more time on interests and leisure.

While I'm here, I'd also like two 2-week half terms in May/ June and Oct (before the clocks go back) and a only a 4 week summer holiday. Please.

And my kids liked it when, during the tail end of Covid, the school had half the kids in the class for the first part of the week and then the other half in for the second part. Their learning came on brilliantly with only 15 kids in the class, as opposed to 30. Must be how private schools do so well?

Lastly, what happened to that report on how the education system can help kids recover from Covid? Buried under sodding partygate??? Kids deserve better. Come on.

While I'm here, I'd also like two 2-week half terms in May/ June and Oct (before the clocks go back) and only a 4 week summer holiday. Please.

In France we have:

2 weeks in October
2 weeks at Christmas
2 weeks in February (for skiing)
2 weeks at Easter / springtime
A 4-day weekend over Ascension
7-8 weeks of summer holidays.

So it is do-able. The summer holidays are loooooong though!

Pretty sure all midwives and drs don't currently work 7 days a week, every week, although I imagine it does happen.

No but if you’re expecting a school to have the same day off every week that means I have to have the same day off every week, and nurses, doctors and midwives work a rotation of shifts. Unless we just close the hospital on a Friday…

Yes there is the wider issue of the impact of an extra day on vulnerable children and I don't have the answers here

Until there are genuine solutions to this, it's a non starter.

Schools are under enormous, continued pressure to close the attainment gap. I have been grilled by Ofsted on this repeatedly.

So introducing a national policy that would widen the gap would be nonsensical. Unless the govt and Ofsted just gives up caring. Which would be really shit for society. But, hey, the rich kids get an extra day each week doing enriching fun things so that's ok.

So because it doesn't work for some industries it shouldn't be trialled for any?

Isn't that like saying "well I can't work from home so you shouldn't either"?

I'd take a 4 day week and would most definitely include schools in that. A 3 day weekend, such as happens over a bank holiday weekend now, is so good for the soul in terms of rest, seeing family/ friends and spending more time on interests and leisure

Not if your family hasn't got a pot to piss in. Or your mum spends her days taking crack. Or your dad wallops you continually. It's such a middle class privilege to see family and leisure time as unadulterated joy.

Schools aren't there to solve society's problems but effectively that's what they do. They hugely mitigate the negative effects that poverty, substance abuse and domestic abuse has on children.

Children from poorer backgrounds do far better in school than out.

I also feel hugely for single parents. Do people even realise how exhausting school holidays can be if it's just you? A three day weekend, every weekend would break lots of struggling single parents.

So because it doesn't work for some industries it shouldn't be trialled for any?

Where are my kids going to go when I’m at work?

I agree it would be fairly unworkable in schools BUT it will only make the teacher recruitment and retention crisis much much worse if teachers had to work a 5 day week while we gone else had 4, inspite of the holidays.