To think that Len Goodman was stating a fact about his Nan, not insulting anything or anyone?

[Notjustanymum]

Just that, really. He (at the age of 78) was saying that his Nan had a bigoted view (commonly held in the 1950’s), that any food vaguely “foreign” - including pasta, in the 1970’s, according to my own DF - was muck, which had, in truth, put him off trying it.
He also said that the Coronation Chicken his wife had made was delicious. Why would people complain about that? He was actually disproving his Nan’s statement and saying she was wrong.
I think that too many people try to cancel the views of the past, but it’s totally true that many people of that generation held views that are not acceptable today, and we shouldn’t forget that, as we learn from mistakes.
I really object to the BBC apologising for his statement, as it makes it seem as if he was in the wrong.
So - what do you think?
YABU - we shouldn’t mention past intolerances for fear of offending someone now
YANBU - we should accept that there were intolerances and be happy that people find ways of overcoming these

My dad was only slightly older than Len and had the same views as his mum, which I thought Len shared himself TBH. I've often shared online that my dad thought of various foods as "foreign muck." The difference is perhaps that it made me want to try lots of food and form my own opinion, whereas Len seemed to be himself of that opinion when I've seen him on TV before in a situation where he was given the option to try different foods. He reacted just like my dad, in fact.

Those saying it's "whitewashing" the past, that he was only saying what people used to say in the 70s, etc - would you say this if someone on live TV repeated a racist comment that their Nan used to say (used the N word, for example)?

If not, you're drawing a line, aren't you? But it's an arbitrary line wherein you've decided what is racist and what isn't. People who complained may be POC who felt it was racist - if they felt that, you can't tell them it wasn't.

I think you should be able to use the n word in that context. I think you should even be able to teach children using that word in that context.
"Shocking as it is to us now, people used to use the word n without thinking or even realising how offensive and racist it was. How does that make you feel? How would you feel if you heard someone use that word now?" etc.
You should be able to discuss the fact that the word p**i was commonly used and accepted even as late as the 80's and explain what word it is an abbreviation of and why it is so offensive.

Having said that... it's fine for certain poets and musicians to use the n word with impunity - now that is hard to explain to the young.

This wasn't a teaching scenario, though, or a documentary about attitudes from the past. It was lighthearted filler-waffle as a build-up to the Platinum Pageant .

Do people seriously not understand the difference between 'my nan didn't fancy curry' and 'my nan and me think curry is foreign muck'

Everyone asking 'is it racist to not like foreign foods', of course not, but there's a difference between saying you don't personally like them, and saying entire foreign cuisines are disgusting

You may think it's a harmless statement but there are loads of people in the UK who have heard their cuisines vilified their entire lives, I think it's a good thing for the BBC to clarify that they don't want to contribute to that

Shocking as it is to us now, people used to use the word n without thinking or even realising how offensive and racist it was

DID THEY NOW

The BBC is de facto censoring speech and smearing a guest for relating a fact - what someone else said in the past - not an opinion or a view held or expressed by the guest.
I object to the use of the word 'cancel' when what is meant is censor. You can cancel an appointment or an arrangement, not a view or opinion. Will the BBC or someone apologise? Unlikely.

No need to rehash those attitudes today or normalise carrying them around for a further 70 years as Len Goodman apparently did if he only got around to trying a coronation chicken sandwich last weekend.

I've never tried coronation chicken, mainly because it often contains sultanas which I won't eat or have to pick out of food.

A PP upthread asked what future generations might think about this.

I’m getting to the point of wondering whether we will be allowed to think at all. At this rate we will be practically mute and allowed only to utter the 11,379 words created to mean sorry.

Having grown up with prejudice and ‘creative’ words and phrases thrown in my direction, I don’t want to take offence where none was meant.

It is important to move forward but not at the expense of erasing the past. We learn from the past.

My dad (who passed away when he was 59, but would have been 84 this year) was from a very poor, rural background (not so much 'meat and two veg' as 'two veg, one of which might not be a potato if you're lucky'), but joined the Navy as a young man, and was obviously very well-travelled.

When he was at home on leave, he was the cook in our house and my friends all loved coming round for what was considered very exotic food in suburban west Scotland in the 1980s: pasta dishes (alla Norma was his speciality), proper Indian curries and side dishes (we had really nice Bangladeshi neighbours and my dad used to trade recipes with them), and even tortillas, which I don't think anybody I knew of had even heard of at that time.

My maternal grandparents had briefly lived in India after the war (my grandfather was an engineer and my grandmother was a nurse), so they had a taste for curry, too (although my grandmother 'didn't trust' garlic).

As a result, my siblings and I all grew up with very adventurous palates and, as adults, are all major foodies!

While I appreciate that my experience growing up wasn't entirely typical and I can kind of see where Len was coming from - plus, as a keen amateur historian, I know the value of context - I also don't think you can write off entire generations as uninformed or poorly educated.

No one is saying it's wrong to dislike coronation chicken or even cuisines generally that originated overseas. It's the unnecessary-in-this-context use of the phrase 'foreign muck' that was offensive.

an elderly man mentions a view held by his elderly grandparent we assume potentially 50 years ago which isnt aligned with today's values and people are falling over themselves that he mentioned it.
The world has gone crackers - he didnt say it was his view, or that he agreed with her so where exactly is the offense?

Sorry, the definition I was going on for xenophobic was fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign Merriam Webster dictionary. or The term xenophobia refers to the fear of that which is different, foreign or strange. Xenophobia is an irrational and unreasoned fear or hatred for people or ideas perceived as foreign. YourDictionary.

So I think xenophobic can be used but not racism.

No one is saying it's wrong to dislike coronation chicken or even cuisines generally that originated overseas. It's the unnecessary-in-this-context use of the phrase 'foreign muck' that was offensive.

But Len didn't actually say it was his view!

Too many people offended at too many things these days. It's pathetic. The pulling down of statues, cancelling people like JK Rowling, and trying to airbrush things/people from the past is ludicrous. Twitter is an unbearable place to be. I wanted to post some of my Jubilee weekend stuff on there, but know I will be lambasted by the haterz on there. So it just went on facebook where there's just my friends and family and people I know.

I am so unbelievably sick to fuck of the woke shit now. Can't say fuck-all without some wokie whinger piping up and stating how offensive that is - to them!

@PurpleButterflyWings
I agree.

You've displayed your own ignorance here.

The primary reason that the term "paki" is considered offensive is that it was historically used in an incorrect and deeply insensitive way to describe anyone of South Asian descent, including people from countries which have fought wars against Pakistan. Using "paki" in this way is like calling an African person "blackie" (or worse).

Calling food "foreign muck" is impolite and dismissive, in the same way as referring to a French person a "frog", but it's not in the same ballpark as "paki".

I totally agree. He’s in his late 70s and was quoting his Grandmother who was almost definitely born when Victoria was on the throne. People need to get a grip.

It's really worrying - our whole intellectual life seems under threat from very controlling, but not necessarily well-informed elements.

One thing which baffles me completely is: why does anyone alive today need to apologise for history? Bad things happened, and we acknowledge them - sure.
But we don't need to apologise because firstly, it's meaningless and secondly, no-one alive today is to blame for slavery, historical exploitation, the Holocaust, persecution of Native Americans, the Armenian massacres etc, etc. These things were all terrible and need to be discussed and brought into the open, but it's utterly ridiculous for anyone to apologise for the past. No-one living today in Japan, for example, is in any way to blame for the atrocities committed during the Second World War by Japanese soldiers.

The hysteria around empires is very strange. Having an empire is surely a stage which capitalist societies (that's nearly all societies) pass through. They go in search of raw materials for manufacture, exploit the native population for labour, and make lots of money out of the finished products. The Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Spanish, British, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgians and Italians...to name but a few...all had empires. Not nice for those subjugated, but not just confined to the 19th century British. I was always taught, way back in the 70s, that slavery and imperialism was horrible for the native people - so I'm baffled about what's changed. Why the sudden obsession with this? Oddly it seems to be news to some people who must have been asleep under a hedge for the last 20/30 years.

Loads of people used to talk about foreign muck. I expect people from other countries used to say the same thing. Who cares? The fact the BBC panders to this crap and apologises for factual statements is cringe inducing.

True. Anyone asking a Frenchman, a Parisian, about anything Anglais isn't generally going to get a particularly polite answer 🙂

I remember Len Goodman put all foreign food into Room 101 when he was on that show, so I think it probably is his sentiment too. I can't find a clip but this is a quote from it:
‘My granddad told me “Never eat anything you can’t spell, and never eat anything you wouldn’t want to tread in.”
‘I’ve never had a curry ever. I’ve never had spaghetti….It’s not as good as ham, egg and chips. Sushi? No. Cockles and mussels and maybe a winkle? Lovely jubbly.’

Quiet day on the news front ovbiously.

It was an example to demonstrate that I don't draw that line, provided context and intention are OK. If Goodman had said "I won't eat any foreign food, filthy foreign muck" he would have been being racist against, well many races.
Quoting something his Nan had said to him is fine in my book.
So - to give an even more direct example - I'd be fine if during a TV interview someone said "It's hard to believe it, but my Nan used to call our Indian neighbours p*'s".

I saw the programme and from memory he tried a lot of things and was happy with what he liked and didn't like, it's not an indication of whether he is nice or if he doesn't like particular food, how ridiculous