To think that Len Goodman was stating a fact about his Nan, not insulting anything or anyone?

[Notjustanymum]

Just that, really. He (at the age of 78) was saying that his Nan had a bigoted view (commonly held in the 1950’s), that any food vaguely “foreign” - including pasta, in the 1970’s, according to my own DF - was muck, which had, in truth, put him off trying it.
He also said that the Coronation Chicken his wife had made was delicious. Why would people complain about that? He was actually disproving his Nan’s statement and saying she was wrong.
I think that too many people try to cancel the views of the past, but it’s totally true that many people of that generation held views that are not acceptable today, and we shouldn’t forget that, as we learn from mistakes.
I really object to the BBC apologising for his statement, as it makes it seem as if he was in the wrong.
So - what do you think?
YABU - we shouldn’t mention past intolerances for fear of offending someone now
YANBU - we should accept that there were intolerances and be happy that people find ways of overcoming these

"The French and Italians aren't a different race to the British so why would calling their food muck be racist. I think xenophobic would be more accurate."

There is no agreed definition of what a 'race' is so you can be racist against any national/ethnic group. However, in this case someone is criticising the food and not the person so I don't see how it can be racist or xenophobic.

Is there any country in Europe that doesn't have this perception of British food?
People remember school exchanges where they were given tinned spaghetti on toast and the like.
If you've ever heard Spanish people talking, scathing doesn't even describe their revulsion.

Yes, let's all pretend the past didn't happen. He was reporting what his nan said.
Isn't wisdom letting go of the idea that the past might change?

🙄

I hope this is a joke. Quoting one's grandmother is hardly offensive, especially when you are pointing out the difference in attitudes. If I quoted my grandfather's views on food, people from other cultures etc., I'd be banned from social media, but they were HIS views, not mine. He was a university graduate in 1911, but his views were the prevailing attitudes of those days. He spent all four years of WW1 in the trenches without injury and spoke his mind which wasn't seen as offensive back then.

I think so. My family have been in London since the early 20th century and always ate a very wide variety of different foods

YANBU, even some people in their 60s/70s are like this about 'foreign' food (including spag bol. ) We could probably find some even of my generation (40s) who are like it.

They apologised? Wow. I thought it was common knowledge that people used to talk about “foreign muck” back then. We used to roll our eyes at older people who said that. Are we meant to not mention the attitudes of the past?

Some posters are being wilfully obtuse I think, describing food as "foreign muck" is not stating a simple preference, that phrase absolutely has racist connotations. It has "paki is just shorthand for Pakistani" energy.

I really fear for the future of the UK with such bonkers people running the show. Of course people in the past thought differently. I guess in 30 years, our 'acceptable' attitudes will be outmoded too.

I've always loved history and tbh, I've got an unshakable prejudice against people who aren't interested in history. How can you not be curious about what the past was like??? It's beyond my capability to imagine that mindset. I think it's people who have no consciousness of the past and the way ideas evolve and change who are so intolerant - George Orwell's predictions have pretty much come true. if someone is speaking with goodwill and not intending to offend (and surely anyone with perception can tell the difference), then don't take offence.

Of course people of past generations will have different attitudes. People of the Q's generation (and Len Goodman's granny) have had massive social change to deal with and as long as they're not nasty, truly racist (as opposed to just using the wrong words) or snobbish, I cut them a lot of slack. They were an amazing generation who went through things we can only read about.

My nan would have the same view for sure. However, our own food has become much more blended, as has society at large. Most pubs have a tikka massala on their pub classics menu. Nothing wrong with acknowledging attitudes of the past, in such a way which recognises that times have now changed. It is important to be objective and honest when looking at views of the past. That said, I have no idea what was said during this particular interview as I have not seen it 😂

*We were the first family in Dundee to eat spaghetti bolognese, my Dad used to eat the occasional Vesta Curry with great ceremony.

@MintyMoocow This has got to be the funniest excerpt I've read on MN. Loling at being the first sphagetti eating family in town whilst also imagining your dad eating curry with 'great ceremony'. It's made my day. Please would you indulge me further by describing what was involved in the 'ceremony' of eating curry aka dad's style?

Referring to food as "foreign muck" absolutely smacks of racism. Reminder that this generation was around when Britain was still a colonial power, colonising the very countries whose food was being referred to as "muck".

No need to rehash those attitudes today or normalise carrying them around for a further 70 years as Len Goodman apparently did if he only got around to trying a coronation chicken sandwich last weekend.

This! This astounds me! No memory for history, no will to remember history. Some of us know full well what that leads to but hey, we are the bigoted ones!?

FFS!

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, 1905

There must be a short phrase for those who deliberately, actively, angrily seek out memories of the past to obliviate!

Or are we also to forget sage advice, because it doesn't belong in the 21st century?

My DGM (born in the 1930s) used to call any food she perceived as being foreign, "muck". That would include pasta, garlic, rice, certain vegetables, most spices & a lot of herbs... I think she would have tolerated rice pudding. Her spice & herb shelf was very small - rosemary, sage, mint, parsley, bay leaves, & some mixed spice for Christmas cake etc. It's what she was brought up with. She was horrified when my mother started dating my dad, he was already cooking currys, Chinese food etc by the age of 12 so he got my mum into lots of exotic flavours (which mum then really enjoyed). My DGM was a good cook though.

It's possible to express disapproval or disagreement with a POV without feeling the need to apologise for it, or remove it from the story. It all seems a bit Big Brother if that's the way the BBC is going to go, TBH.

Completely agree with you OP (and I say this as an Asian person). It was very clear that this was probably a common attitude at the time, given these new, exotic and seemingly "weird" ingredients (think about olive oil being bought at the chemists!) - and that we have moved on. We can't re-write history to make it palatable.

People who are angry about Len must really struggle to read history books/ old novels etc. Stating that people back in the day had racist or xenophobic attitudes, or even attitudes derived from narrow experience (or a preference for blandness, although I agree that there are unpleasant undertones to the word ‘muck’ when applied to all foreign food) is just a fact. Ignoring this fact would be very dismissive of historical migrant/ethnic minority experiences of prejudice, surely? It’s blatant revisionism.

So what is the difference between LenGoodman ( whoever he may be, I haven’t a clue) and his gran despising ‘ foreign food’ and religious / social rejection of entire food groups or method of ‘preparation’. I’m thinking about halal, kosher , the Hindu caste system as it affects food preparation. I expect there are plenty of other instances which I am too mono cultural to know about.
Is it that it is okay to reject the entire food culture of a nation on religious or cultural grounds, but not on, well, ‘ cultural ‘ grounds? No one would criticise am Orthodox Jew for refusing prawns ( all the little legs, as Alan Coren remarked) as they are not kosher. No one would dare to suggest that a practising Muslim should hold their nose and have a go with black pudding. No one would be outraged at their refusal, either. Or at their making their disgust public.

My darling late MIL wouldn't eat quiche or garlic bread.

But when I called them egg and bacon flan and herb bread she tucked in with enthusiasm. She just had a prejudice against foreign food. She was fairly typical of her generation.

YANBU, it was clear he was referring about the past, and yes it is interesting to realize that opinions have changed.

Off topic, but when my Swiss DGM died a few years ago at the age of 91 she had pre-arranged her funeral meal and it was Coronation chicken. I didn’t realize at the time how modern it was of her! And thinking about it, even though she would usually eat meat+potatoes+veg she also loved Chinese food! I’m talking about a pastor’s wife in rural Switzerland.

I write about the history of ideas. One of the woman I’ve been researching (circa early 1910s) was incredibly right on about everything- women’s rights, colonialism, workers rights, gay rights- but occasionally wrote things about Jews worthy of Mein Kampf. Am I supposed to ignore that part of her character in case readers think that her 110 year old bigotry means anti semitism is fine and dandy in the 21st century?

It's "offensive" to like what food you like? Who's offended by it?

Yes, indeed. I recall clearly thinking what a narrow-minded prat he was for thinking and saying it.

I’ve just watched it, he’s taking the piss out of himself and his Nan and saying actually he liked the coronation chicken. He wasn’t calling the food ‘foreign muck’ but saying that was his attitude till he tried it.

I really don’t see what people are complaining about, he is well known for being caricature of a grumpy old man and was mocking himself for this.

It was the repetition of his nan's phrase that was inappropriate. He could just have said she 'didn't like foreign food.' Just as, for example, you would usually describe someone as 'using a racist slur' rather than quoting the slur itself.