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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the monarchy is regressive and should be abolished?

281 replies

Muezza · 01/06/2022 13:36

The principle of the monarchy, that they are superior people because of the family they were born into/married into is completely regressive and embarrassing for us as a country.

All the hoopla around the jubilee is cringe worthy

OP posts:
wordler · 01/06/2022 17:46

There wouldn't be much benefit financially to the general public by replacing the constitutional monarchy with an elected head of state. Most of the money spent goes to the upkeep of the various historical properties. You'd still have all of that and paying for staff for an elected head of state, etc.

There would also need to be a massively expensive and very long transition of all the various workings of law, parliament, money, armed forces etc - to change how everything is done. It would make organising Brexit look like a Sunday picnic.

That's why no government is willing to undertake it without the serious backing of the public - it would be the work of decades - so until the public majority is seriously on the side of a Republic, nothing will change.

In the last poll in 2021 by yougov.co.uk - 61 percent wanted to keep the Monarchy. In 18-24 year olds only 31 percent wanted to keep the monarchy but 28 percent said they didn't know. There was still only 41 percent for an elected head of state.

It will be interesting to see how many of that age group keep those views in 20 years time, or whether they will follow the pattern of becoming more traditionalist as they grow older.

Even so - it's going to be at least another 20 years before a government will even consider a referendum and a serious attempt at a republic.

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 01/06/2022 17:51

Off with their heads. I hate the lot of them

lameasahorse · 01/06/2022 17:56

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orwellwasright · 01/06/2022 17:56

That's the thing about history - you can interpret it in different ways.

The flag-shaggers see Blighty's imperial shenanigans as the mark of greatness whereas more enlightened people are increasingly seeing our past endeavours as a source of shame.

Blossomtoes · 01/06/2022 18:02

I don’t think anyone sees imperialism as a mark of greatness any more @orwellwasright. My dad would have been 106 now, he was a patriotic monarchist who hated what the empire did.

I see people are already camping out on the Mall, by the way!

StoneofDestiny · 01/06/2022 18:03

Imagine Boris in Buckingham Palace.(Ok not really but he would be elevated to Presidential status wouldn't he and probably have some kind of White House establishment)

Why? The whole Head of State thing would be designed from the start. We don't have to copy any model in existence, though Ireland might be a good model to look at.

However, if it was Bawbag Johnson, we could vote him out. We would we be responsible for providing his extended bunch of relatives houses, privileges and security. Now would we be expected to provide his offspring 'jobs' and lives of luxury for life.

Bring on the Republic!

wordler · 01/06/2022 18:05

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I'm sure a lot of financial changes could be made to the current set up which would improve things. I suspect Charles and definitely William have plans to do something about the different levels of expenses.

William just hired Jean-Christophe Gray as his new private secretary. Grey was Head of General Expenditure Policy at the Treasury and is known for being a cost-cutter and slasher of budgets under both Gordon Brown and David Cameron.

FoiledByTheInsect · 01/06/2022 18:07

Discovereads · 01/06/2022 17:44

Mussolini killed over 400,000 innocent Italian people…and this is in addition to how he also worked with Hitler to genocide the Italian Jews. Saying the monarchy was abolished by a ‘peaceful referendum’ in 1946 is being deliberately obtuse and ignoring the years of revolution caused by Mussolini and his Italian Social Republic in the two decades prior. A referendum that arguably was only peaceful because it was done post WWII and under the eye of the Allies and the UN.

No, you're twisting what I said to win an argument.

Your sweeping statement prior to that, was that all monarchs are removed amid mass slaughter or words to that effect. My point was that the actual transition from monarchy to republic doesn't need to involve any bloodshed, not that the decades or centuries prior to the abolition were free of violence. Also, Mussolini was a fascist dictator, so even if he'd called his regime the peaceful republic of unicorns and fairies, everyone could see what it was: not a republic in any true sense.

Kris02 · 01/06/2022 18:07

Personally, I find them an utter embarrassment. If they were beautiful and elegant and graceful, or spoke like characters in an Oscar Wilde play, it might not be so bad. They would at least make us look good abroad. But jesus, it's hard to imagine an uglier collection of gargoyles!

Someone wrote in the paper that if we got rid of the monarchy we'd be "a boring, insignificant little island" with nothing to be proud of. Really!? If you listed the ten most important scientists who ever lived, at least a third of them would be Brits. We have two of the oldest and most famous universities in the world. Our canon of writers is second to none (the American critic Harold Bloom included more British writers on his 'world canon' list than any other nationality). Our pop music is also second to none.

There are loads of things I hate about the UK, but I still find it a fascinating place to live. Virtually every great name from history seems to have been born here, or lived here, or died here. You can go to Highgate cemetery and see the graves of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud, for example. You can walk around Cambridge knowing that it's where Nabokov and Wittgenstein and Darwin and Newton all studied, where DNA and gravity were discovered. Or go to Oxford and see where Oscar Wilde and Ruskin and Pater and Lewis Carroll lived.

Bill Bryson wrote that Britain fascinates him because it is "packed to bursting with incident" He writes that "you can wander through a town like Oxford and in the space of a few hundred yards pass the home of Christopher Wren, the building where Halley found his comet and Boyle the first law, the track where Roger Bannister ran the first sub-four-minute mile, the meadow where Lewis Carrol strolled." Intellectually, it's one of the most stimulating places on earth. Like Greece or Italy or France, it fires the imagination.

Given all that, why should we be interested in an ignorant little oaf like prince Harry? Or a podgy, sweaty creep like Andrew?

Blossomtoes · 01/06/2022 18:08

There would also need to be a massively expensive and very long transition of all the various workings of law, parliament, money, armed forces etc - to change how everything is done. It would make organising Brexit look like a Sunday picnic. That's why no government is willing to undertake it without the serious backing of the public - it would be the work of decades - so until the public majority is seriously on the side of a Republic, nothing will change.

All of this. I hope your 20 year prediction is correct @wordler, that means I stand a good chance of being dead before it happens.

leotardrock · 01/06/2022 18:08

Don't worry I expect Johnson will have got rid of them by next summer!

wordler · 01/06/2022 18:10

It would be better for those wanting a Republic if William and Charles don't make cuts though. If they manage to create a small working monarchy which cuts out the hangers on and grace and favour shenanigans, and concentrates on doing the positive charity work, plus head of state pomp and ceremony for the government's foreign affairs needs, then there will never be a government who is prepared to put a new system in place.

GiltEdges · 01/06/2022 18:10

toastofthetown · 01/06/2022 13:42

The royal family is in a bit of difficult situation existentially, as the reasoning that they are innately more special by virtue of their birth doesn’t really fly any more. But then if they are just as average human beings as everyone else, why do they hold such a powerful and privileged position?

Privileged yes, but powerful, really? The monarchy hasn't had any true power for hundreds of years.

Why2why · 01/06/2022 18:13

It is nonsense. Really, really embarrassing. The idea that Britain needs the monarchy for tourism is insulting. People come to visit symbols of history. Just as they do in France and else.

Britain does not need this outdated unbelievable fantasy to be relevant or great on the world stage.

Blossomtoes · 01/06/2022 18:18

Why2why · 01/06/2022 18:13

It is nonsense. Really, really embarrassing. The idea that Britain needs the monarchy for tourism is insulting. People come to visit symbols of history. Just as they do in France and else.

Britain does not need this outdated unbelievable fantasy to be relevant or great on the world stage.

I wonder if the populations of The Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Norway or any of the other seven European monarchies are embarrassed? Anyone would think we were the last monarchy in the world the way some of you are carrying on.

JanisMoplin · 01/06/2022 18:18

Kris02 · 01/06/2022 18:07

Personally, I find them an utter embarrassment. If they were beautiful and elegant and graceful, or spoke like characters in an Oscar Wilde play, it might not be so bad. They would at least make us look good abroad. But jesus, it's hard to imagine an uglier collection of gargoyles!

Someone wrote in the paper that if we got rid of the monarchy we'd be "a boring, insignificant little island" with nothing to be proud of. Really!? If you listed the ten most important scientists who ever lived, at least a third of them would be Brits. We have two of the oldest and most famous universities in the world. Our canon of writers is second to none (the American critic Harold Bloom included more British writers on his 'world canon' list than any other nationality). Our pop music is also second to none.

There are loads of things I hate about the UK, but I still find it a fascinating place to live. Virtually every great name from history seems to have been born here, or lived here, or died here. You can go to Highgate cemetery and see the graves of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud, for example. You can walk around Cambridge knowing that it's where Nabokov and Wittgenstein and Darwin and Newton all studied, where DNA and gravity were discovered. Or go to Oxford and see where Oscar Wilde and Ruskin and Pater and Lewis Carroll lived.

Bill Bryson wrote that Britain fascinates him because it is "packed to bursting with incident" He writes that "you can wander through a town like Oxford and in the space of a few hundred yards pass the home of Christopher Wren, the building where Halley found his comet and Boyle the first law, the track where Roger Bannister ran the first sub-four-minute mile, the meadow where Lewis Carrol strolled." Intellectually, it's one of the most stimulating places on earth. Like Greece or Italy or France, it fires the imagination.

Given all that, why should we be interested in an ignorant little oaf like prince Harry? Or a podgy, sweaty creep like Andrew?

Beautifully put, though their looks are the last thing I care about. But as a first generation immigrant, I agree that the UK is one of the most stimulating places on earth, and has so much more than the monarchy to be proud about.

lameasahorse · 01/06/2022 18:18

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darisdet · 01/06/2022 18:27

Is anyone here a member of Republic? I'm not, but I've just been looking at their 'Make Elizabeth the Last ' campaign.

Florenz · 01/06/2022 18:28

However you set up the system for electing a head of state, it would still be a political system and the Head of State would still be a politician who finagled their way into the job. There isn't a politician who I would want to do it.

What do the anti-Royals think about countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Japan that are also Monarchies? Are they "regressive" countries?

Why2why · 01/06/2022 18:30

Blossomtoes · 01/06/2022 18:18

I wonder if the populations of The Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Norway or any of the other seven European monarchies are embarrassed? Anyone would think we were the last monarchy in the world the way some of you are carrying on.

But they run a different gig don’t they? Very down to earth and not all this suspending of reality and pretending that these people are to be worshipped and looked up to as innately better the commoners.

Did you not see William and Kate in that open top Land Rover in Jamaica? I mean!!! They are so out of touch to not have realised they were disgracing themselves. How embarrassing was that. Laughing stock.

Britain used to be admired world wide, especially in the former colonies. Britain has exposed its underwear to the world and it ain’t pretty.

I think Stephen Fry hit the nail on the head when he said Britain is deluded about its issues with race.

JanisMoplin · 01/06/2022 18:31

Florenz · 01/06/2022 18:28

However you set up the system for electing a head of state, it would still be a political system and the Head of State would still be a politician who finagled their way into the job. There isn't a politician who I would want to do it.

What do the anti-Royals think about countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Japan that are also Monarchies? Are they "regressive" countries?

I think we are saying it is a regressive system, not that the UK is a regressive country. I have lived in one of the countries you mention and there isn't as much pomp and show around the royals.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/06/2022 18:34

Equally predictably followed by “What about Versailles?” We’ve been here too long, Puzzled

Plus of course "who'd want a President like Boris", though I see we've already had that one ... as if there could never be an alternative Wink

Inextremis · 01/06/2022 18:34

I really like having a monarchy - it's like having our own private soap opera populated by people who feel like distant family. They're well worth it just for the entertainment value - I don't think anyone nowadays believes that they are superior beings - I rather pity most of them for having very little choice about living a public life under scrutiny. I love the pomp and the traditions and all that though, and they don't cost that much, really.

Why2why · 01/06/2022 18:36

Florenz · 01/06/2022 18:28

However you set up the system for electing a head of state, it would still be a political system and the Head of State would still be a politician who finagled their way into the job. There isn't a politician who I would want to do it.

What do the anti-Royals think about countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Japan that are also Monarchies? Are they "regressive" countries?

The great economic powers of the world, are regardless of their political system (democracy to communism) seem to function pretty well without a monarchy.

The other European countries mentioned do not adopt this weird, demented attitude towards their monarchy. And they certainly don’t see them as a relic to hang on to to declare their country great. You’re not even a citizen but a mere subject. You don’t sing about how great your country is but rather sing that the God you do not believe in should save your Queen. Complete bonkers.

Parky04 · 01/06/2022 18:37

IanOsenfrote · 01/06/2022 13:58

I think that after the queen has passed away, the whole thing should be abolished. I can't see any need to replace them with a president or suchlike.

To be fair to the queen, she has not put a foot wrong in 70 years and that is quite an achievement but the monarchy is an outdated concept now IMO.

Tourists come to see the buildings and the history. I bet few have actually seen the queen herself.

You can't just abolish the monarchy, at the very least you would have to have a referendum. About time we had another one, so we can rip each others throats out again!

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