MIL has been in A&E 17½ hours. AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable

[PearlyShamps]

MIL has pain shooting from her groin, down her leg. Cannot walk or bear weight. GP advised to call 111. They advised to go to A&E. There, at 6pm yesterday, she was told 5 hour wait. She and her husband (both well into there 70s) have now been waiting almost 18 hours. She has been triaged, but not seen by a dr. They have missed 2 meals and a night's sleep. We feel useless and unable to help. Its utterly ridiculous!

People are lazy. They quote the US system but god forbid they are asked to pay. They just want others to!

In the USA we pay outrageous amounts for health insurance. For many middle aged middle class people I know it is their largest monthly expense. It is also mandatory. In spite of this the level of service is now horrible because of Covid taking over the hospitals.

Well some people pay nothing here and that could well be the issue. There isnt a value to what they have brought. Its free. If you are low paid or on benefits you are often paying little or nothing in taxes.

The NHS has grown like a monster and now people are demanding more and more, we are living longer and longer and not always because we want to. My parents are over 90. One is just existing (but that is for another thread). Medical care has been thrown at him just to keep him alive at a large cost. He doesnt want it, but the NHS dont want to be accused of forgetting the older people so they undertake ops and procedures. They do general tests on him over and over again. It doesnt make any difference. My Father is just very old and tired of living. He hasnt been contributing very much tax wise over the last 25 years as he has long since retired. We never expected the NHS to cover these scenarios when it was set up.

I’m so sorry your in-laws are having to go through this. Both my husband and father (twice since middle of March) have had similar experiences in A& E recently. I hope your MIL is sorted soon. I think all MPs should sit in A&E with their sick loved ones to get the real experience and then we’d see things change!

They should have left and gone home really....

My 5 year old ripped his mouth open I rushed to a&e we waited 7 hours and the doctor who eventually saw him was not a childrens doctor, couldn't do stitches and had no idea what to do about his loose (adult) teeth. We ended up being referred to another hospital where luckily we were seen quickly. He even said why hasn't he eaten 😩 now has a chin full of scars because there was no one to treat him.

Well some people pay nothing here and that could well be the issue. There isnt a value to what they have brought. Its free. If you are low paid or on benefits you are often paying little or nothing in taxes

Like the key workers who work in Tesco who kept everyone fed (including NHS workers) during the pandemic. The care workers in nursing homes who had to deal with Covid positive patients being discharged into their care. Are these the low paid people you mean.

I wouldn't have thought that really an option when the issue was MIL trying to weight bare and pain shooting through her groin?

Couldnt agree more.

So much respect for the nhs staff who keep trying to help patients despite unworkable conditions.

i can’t imagine the emotional damage that it must do to folk to see people claiming they’re happy to see old people die as it’s less work

if people directed their anger at the people chronically underfunding the system maybe we would see change

Ask to speak to the bleep holder or the member of staff in charge of the hospital at this time. Explain that 17 hours is not acceptable...that you will be putting in a formal complaint to the CEO, the trustee's and contacting the local radio, local newspaper and your MP. Im a nurse and when my grandson was admitted to A&E with suspected Meningitis at 15 months of age...he had a purple rash from waist to toes, was knocked off and barely awake. My son rang me and said they told him it would be 2 hours...Im a childrens nurse too...and knew if it was Meningitis after 2 hours he could be at the stage of losing limbs. I drove to the hospital breaking all speed records, demanded in a loud voice to speak to the bleep holder...when asked who I was (in the tone of who do you think you are) I said Im a nurse that has worked here for thirty years and I know where the bodies are buried....get me the bleepholder...now! Senior nurse came running....I told her my daughter in law had been told there was only one doctor in A&E because one called in sick....she said there was a man having a heart attack and asked my daughter in law if she thought she would like to choose which one is left to die!!!! I suggested calling the on call paediatric consultant...now... had more rubbish about we dont call them unless its really necessary. I clarified the importance...ie. I would bury the hospital if they didnt get a consult out now. Ten minutes later....my grandson had five doctors around his bed..... I know its not the NHS fault...but if you dont make the loudest noise....you dont get seen.

apparently paying for private treatment even when you have some degree of health insurance is the major cause of bankruptsy in the USA

NHS policy to kill the pensioners. Most of them are old, alone and sick. If they dont get treated they will just pass due to their ailments. Shameful behaviour. This wouldn't happen in India, we have private insurance and healthcare. The NHS is deliberately run down and they dont do themselves any favours.

Some people pay nothing here....what do you mean? are you blaming low paid workers for the mess that is the NHS? I would suggest you aim your anger at the people responsible....this vile bloody government who couldnt care less about anyone who isnt wealthy. The Tories have plunged another million into poverty. Parents who cant eat every day if they wish to feed their kids...and some of these people are running three jobs....three crappily paid jobs because the greedy business owners like to keep the profit and pay shit wages and give out zero hour contracts. Go and fight with the Tory MPs....and suggest that multinationals that do not pay tax here...like Boots the chemist and a host of cafe's start paying bloody tax...and make the highest earners pay more...a lot more.

In my experience they will usually feed the patient if they are there during mealtimes or if asked.

I think the attitude of let the oldies die is very much with this government...you only need see how well they handled Covid.....allowing infected elders discharged from hospital back into their care homes. Johnson was even quoted at one stage saying its only old people dying....nice.

My waiting experience recently at A&E (not including time spent being seen):

Monday:
GP told me to go to hospital
1hr wait for triage
Sent for blood test
30 mins wait after blood test and taken to A&E surgery waiting room
1.5 hr wait for A&E Surgeon
Told to return the following morning no food or water ready for general anaesthetic.

Tuesday:
Arrived back in hospital as instructed for surgery at 8am
11 hr * *wait for bed in A&E emergency surgery waiting room
Got bed at 7pm
No more surgery that night - slept.

Wednesday:
Woken at 5am & prepped for surgery
Went for surgery at 11am

I was triaged and seen by the surgeon relatively quickly on the Monday but yes, A&E waiting times are VERY long!

@rnsaslkih

Of course it is. But one person has a good experience and it's amazing.

My df was about 17 hours outside in an ambulance one march 5 year's ago.

He never came out.

I wonder if they shouldn't have special a and e for older people?

And a special one for the weekend drunks...which also charges.

We definitely need to do better though.

I would call pals and make them aware ,it's disgusting treatment but not surprised unfortunately .

Rubbish. My dad was 94, lost to dementia for many years but they brought him back four times over two years from severe chest infections when he should have been allowed to drift away. It is NOT NHS policy to let pensioners die.

@PearlyShamps im sorry they’ve had such a rough time and no it’s not acceptable. I’m sure the staff feel that way too but are stuck in the middle.

My then 83 year old, mother in law was treated for and operated on for a heart attack 2 years ago. They also had the year before treated her successfully for breast cancer. It’s a load of shit that the elderly are left.

I’m NHS staff I’ve been in work since 7:15, I’m just having my lunch break. I work so hard on my long days as do my colleagues.

I find the comment about leaving the over 70s to die so bloody offensive and I don’t even work with them. Sure the NHS has some crap staff like anywhere but most of us are here and clinging on because we do care and we do want the best for our patients it’s just very difficult to deliver in a broken NHS. No one cares till they or their families are affected.

The staff are not to blame, the government running the NHS down for years, selling bits off already, brexit meaning staff felt unwelcome and went to other countries. The pandemic has caused huge amount of burnouts, mental health issues plus staff with long covid. Pay is shocking in comparison to other careers and hasn’t progressed how it should have. We are struggling to recruit nurses and doctors. I dread to think how worse it could get as more of us leave as we are more and more done.

I'm so sorry for the staff, I can't imagine what it's like to work in such a stressful situation. I'm sorry for the OP's Mum too. It's really down to the government to provide the necessary educational pathways and funding at this stage. No one else can 'fix' things. But they don't seem to care right now. It is a bit scary.

My father was sent to A&E by the GP last week, he arrived at 11am with chest and arm pain, difficulty breathing, prior heart problems and as "booked in" by the GP (so pre-triaged in effect). He was given a bed on the cardiac ward at 3AM - a full 16 hours later for proper heart attack symptoms.... that is what you are dealing with at the moment.

For those saying if the A&E wait is too long, people should go home and return later...it was made very clear during my 15 hour wait that if anyone left A&E, their 'place' could not be 'held' -they would be classed as new patient on their return and the wait would start afresh. One old man lived close by and asked if he could go home to fetch a warmer coat (it was freezing overnight) and was told no, he would be 'discharged' and would have to start again. This was January - everyone was there alone, no one allowed to have anyone with them, except small children. The lucky ones had relatives bring them food.

Dora is right. In the many times my Father has been in hospital they have thrown everything at him to get him to stay breathing. He now fights them when he is there and he is a big man - it cannot be pleasant for them but they do what they can.

The point I am trying to make is that all very old people want to keeping having everything thrown at them to keep them alive regardless of their quality of life. My Father doesnt want to be kept like this.

I have seen no indication that the NHS 'left people over 70 die' no indication at all.

before the 4 hrs thing. I was left for 3 days once! With blood clots too. So not like something insignificant.

there is the 4 hour rule so I would check they’ve not been missed