To not know how to talk about climate change IRL?

[workwoes123]

I have an academic background in science, and an ongoing interest in it. I follow a lot of climate scientists and activists on Twitter, and read a lot around the subject. What I struggle to bring myself to do is talk to people IRL about it - even they ask me.

For anyone who suffers from anxiety (my sister, my mum) it’s just awful for them as it creates huge worries.

With others, my book group for example, it feels like preaching, telling them off for living their lives in the way they do (they are all pretty affluent, flying frequently for work and pleasure, multiple cars, big country houses, etc etc). When I’m spending time with people I like, I don’t want to be constantly challenging them on their choices / lifestyles or dooming and glooming around.

It’s similar with colleagues at work: they aren’t as affluent but they all drive, fly, eat meat, do up their kitchens because they are bored with the old one, shop as a hobby, run two cars so they can live in a bigger house / further from public transport etc - everything we are told will have to change.

But it’s bubbling up in me. I’m really not given to gloom and doom, but the cognitive dissonance between seeing the train coming towards us and pretending there’s nothing there is starting to get to me.

do you talk to people about this? how do you do it?

Maybe I’ll have to join extinction rebellion or something. Or, conversely, stop following scientists and activists and ignore it.

When they ask ask them if there's anything in particular they want to know about?

I talk about it but only in context of my own choices - not telling people off for making different ones.

There's a time and place. Choose carefully and you won't have problems.

You need to able to talk about other stuff too. Not every conversation must be worthy or serious

@WooNoodle

the most recent question was ‘what do you think about all this?’ - ‘this’ being climate change. From a woman who lives in a €1.5 million house, has 4 children living in Greece, France, and the UK and who she visits regularly, a husband who works in a different country and has a house there too, and she travels to see him most weekends. Yet she’s a lovely person and genuinely thinks that because she’s not into clothes or shopping, that her lifestyle is low impact and quite frugal / green. Where would I start??

I feel like the world is ending and everyone is just pretending it isn’t happening. But I never talk about it. I won’t fly, eat meat or buy clothes for myself.
I just quietly live in terror.
My friend just got back from her eighth holiday/break abroad this year. I can’t bring myself to talk to her about it. I envy her obliviousness.

I work in climate change & don’t ever talk to people about their habits. Those of us who do work in this field, quite often eat some meat and fly occasionally as well.

The biggest root cause of emissions is government decisions and business operations, not individuals. Cutting out a flight is a drop in the ocean relative to the actions companies can take.

For what it’s worth I have a great deal of sympathy for Extinction Rebellion’s message as I think they are completely on the money, especially now with the cost of living crisis.

I can guarantee you’d think I voted Tory if you met me. People aren’t always what they seem.

Apologies, Insulate Britain is who I quietly support. It’s still early!

You can raise awareness generally in other ways. There's no need to preach to your friends or family. That'll never go down well.

Accept that you're not responsible for the actions of others and continue following a lifestyle you see fit.
I really don't see the benefit of you being all consumed by the issue of climate change .to the extent that it's causing you to feel unhappy and disconnected to those around you.

People know OP. I don’t think anyone can claim ignorance at this point. They just don’t give a shit.

It's such a complicated problem, the decrease in flights and general burning of fossil fuels during lockdown is believed to have lead to an acceleration of Arctic ice melt. Stopping one set of habits just causes other problems. Whilst the individual can help by changing their habits those efforts are just a drop in the ocean compared to what business and companies need to do.

In your situation when asked I would focus on businesses and their impact. Your friend knows what she's doing by flying regularly but doesn't care enough to stop so there is little point in trying to educate her by telling her off for her habits.

I work in climate change too and I don't proactively start conversations about it but I do make sure that people know that I make choices on that basis.

Also I think absolutes don't help - fly less rather than don't fly at all. Make it less intimidating in terms of changing your lifestyle.

It's terrifying and most people are just carrying on regardless.

Have you done a proper assessment of her carbon footprint? Reading your post, I wonder if you are making the mistake of bundling everyone together and saying 'they all'... when actually, one person does X which isn't ideal, another does Y.

I know someone who is active in Extinction Rebellion and owns three houses! Keeping them maintained when no one is living in them is a massive drain on the earth's resources. But I wouldn't dream of telling her that.

I also know a fair few teens and young twenty-somethings who scowl at me for ever flying on holiday. Yet when an opportunity comes up for them to go somewhere that is best reached by plane they conveniently forget their morals.

The best way is to lead by example, not to tell other people how to live. DS1 is veggie and buys all his clothes second hand. I have watched him make decisions on food and clothes which he struggled with but his moral stance won out. Because of this, I admire him so much and have started following his example. I used to hate buying second hand clothes but now I'll look on Vinted or Ebay first.

You could stop hanging out with people whose values are so different from yours and find new friends. You can't change other people, you' don't have that power. So enjoy their company, or don't.

You can be the change you want to see - model the way of life you prefer, rather than talking about it.

And you can learn to take a more political perspective. At the moment you seem to see 'we're all doomed' and 'individual choice' with nothing in between.

What you could do is talk about the choices available to governments - and why they might and might not make those choices. Part of that is the popular support they need in order to embolden them. Part of it is the practical alliances they need to have in place, in order to deliver on any promises they might be persuaded to make. Governments govern by consent and are cautious.

If asked 'what do you think about all this' I'd keep it factual and scenario based; 'I think x, y, z are likely to happen within 50 years, a, b, c within a hundred. I don't think there is the political will or popular support necessary to keep us below a 1.5 rise' for example. If they want to know more, let them ask questions.

What will change affluent people's choices is prices and taxation, rather than persuasion. Everyone thinks they're normal; the rich don't think they're rich, the poor don't identify themselves as poor. But anyone can support an NGO that espouses values they like - without thinking too much about how implementation of those values might affect them. Any affluent person can invest in practical technologies or development projects that would make a difference.

So I'd take those angles - talk about the positive support and investment they can offer, that could contribute towards making a difference. Practical, positive steps that will make them feel good.

It doesn't matter whether the support for NGO campaigns and investment in practical and technological advances comes from people who live a lifestyle that models the changes those NGOs and companies would like to create in the world. Your friends will carry on living their lifestyles either way. Better to do so while making some positive contribution.

Then one day they'll learn something for themselves and start lecturing you!

This is a really interesting question, OP.

Reading your OP, it seems to me that you have to start being a bit more blunt with your friends, especially when they ask for your opinion. Otherwise, I think the cognitive dissonance you describe will get worse until you feel that you are not living a true version of yourself. It is possible that some friendships may be affected by your honesty, and this may be something you have to accept.

Protecting the mental health of your mother and sister by not being too negative is a different thing though.

OP, your frustration is misplaced and a little irrational. You won’t want to hear this and neither will anyone else on this thread, but people not eating meat in this country or using bamboo toothbrushes isn’t going to change anything. Not when two countries, other than this small island, produce almost a third or global carbon emissions.

Also, you can’t lecture your way out of this problem. You have to invent solutions, or at least support others that do. Otherwise you just sound like a self indulgent, first world ‘activist’.

I had to give up op as noone wants to hear it.

Realistically this must come up very rarely in everyday conversation.

If you are asked directly then you can explain what you do to limit your carbon footprint or point someone in the direction of some reading material.

I wouldn't advise bringing it up in conversation and lecturing people.

The general public are aware of the issues and all you'll do is alienate your friends and families if you voice your disapproval. It'll come across as sanctimonious and judgemental although I'm sure you are well intended.

If you had family living in Italy and Greece what would you do? Refuse to visit them?

I don't think it's healthy to resent or blame others for their lifestyle choices. It's not that simple.

I’m a sustainability manager and this is a real issue atm about how to get people engaged. I can tell you now that the past messages around climate change have fell on deaf ears “think about the future of your grandchildren” said to an audience that done even have kids!
i communicate by making it relevant to the person in the here and now. Not the bleak outcome as many of us won’t be here for that. But what can you say to motivate people, that Individual person right now. The messages will be different to different people. However very relevant and perhaps there’s an opportunity now as being sustainable can save you money with the cost of living crisis right now.

Maybe get off Twitter and stop following all these people? Live your life without bringing your own curated newsfeed into others lives without being asked.

continued…. It’s also not about changing people
to be eco warriors. It’s about small steps that they can do, which once their behaviour has changed will lead to more steps. Telling someone for example to give up their car is overwhelming and not practical for most. But encouraging someone to have a car free day is realistic.

There will be alot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over the rising cost of heating etc (understandable) but it's the best thing that could happen to the planet. Everyone using less gas/petrol/electricity .

I think it's pointless discussing it - the whole of the wealthy half of the world needs to stop doing everything we do. That wont' happen.

Not sure if this comment is ignorant or stupid. Or both. ‘Everyone should give up all their luxuries’ says someone online typing on a smartphone. Who says irony is dead? Especially when it comes to idiotic Marxists.

It is very difficult to imagine a happy life which didn't include stuff, owning a car, being able to fly somewhere interesting or warm every couple of years, wearing layers inside instead of heating your home, buying clothes which flatter you rather than clothes which are purely functional (keeping you warm), not choosing new carpets/kitchens/cars/etc etc , I mean what do we do with so much of our time when we stop all that.

I was around in the 60s so can remember not having so much stuff, variety of foods, warm house (just one room). But it was a quiet life where you live within cycling distance of your job, you don't go away on hols.

I don't know how you can convince people that that is an attractive option to aim for.

Not sure if this comment is ignorant or stupid. Or both. ‘Everyone should give up all their luxuries’ says someone online typing on a smartphone. Who says irony is dead? Especially when it comes to idiotic Marxists.

Well what wonderful solution do you have @sst1234 - bit pointless trashing someone's ideas if you have none of your own.