To not know how to talk about climate change IRL?

[workwoes123]

I have an academic background in science, and an ongoing interest in it. I follow a lot of climate scientists and activists on Twitter, and read a lot around the subject. What I struggle to bring myself to do is talk to people IRL about it - even they ask me.

For anyone who suffers from anxiety (my sister, my mum) it’s just awful for them as it creates huge worries.

With others, my book group for example, it feels like preaching, telling them off for living their lives in the way they do (they are all pretty affluent, flying frequently for work and pleasure, multiple cars, big country houses, etc etc). When I’m spending time with people I like, I don’t want to be constantly challenging them on their choices / lifestyles or dooming and glooming around.

It’s similar with colleagues at work: they aren’t as affluent but they all drive, fly, eat meat, do up their kitchens because they are bored with the old one, shop as a hobby, run two cars so they can live in a bigger house / further from public transport etc - everything we are told will have to change.

But it’s bubbling up in me. I’m really not given to gloom and doom, but the cognitive dissonance between seeing the train coming towards us and pretending there’s nothing there is starting to get to me.

do you talk to people about this? how do you do it?

Maybe I’ll have to join extinction rebellion or something. Or, conversely, stop following scientists and activists and ignore it.

@RudsyFarmer it's a weird logic that claims we can't solve problems single handed so therefore I'm not going to join a group that can make things better.

The way I have framed it when talking with those who doubt climate change or feel there is little we can do is to look at the actions that should be taken. They help energy security and air quality, sometimes I used to say that I did not want to waste energy and help Mr Putin or other despotic regimes (even before the invasion of Ukraine).

@Runciblefork your mental health insults are particularly odious and conceited.

I'm not being nasty. This is worrying and irrational behaviour. It's not healthy to be that obsessed with something

That fact hasnt galvanised me to stop eating meat, sell my car or ditch my phone either. (I'm also not sure you are right about China)

Sorry.

Facts dont work. Sensible alternatives do.

People will change when forced to do, the change is convenient or they can make money or save money.

@Daftasabroom yes, I agree the fatalism is more alarming than the ignorance. Particularly on a forum largely populated by parents.

Thanks for sharing about your work, it sounds like there are some good things happening that you can't tell us about!

The range of responses interests me.

Some saying people who worry about climate change are wrong or deranged or obsessed.

Some gleefully trying to rile up people who believe something different from them.

Some letting OP know she's not alone.

Then there's 'but China!' As if we can't show some leadership of our own.

And 'but it should be the government, not individuals'. How much any government will do for the environment is influenced by how much voters tell them and show them it matters.

A really thought-provoking thread.

@comeondover This thread has caught me on a bad day in terms of fatalism. I dont have faith in the uk political system anymore. I have never voted for the winning person/side in years of voting and the same things i was marching for from 10 yearss old are still an issue heading for 60 years old.

I've aged myself by a decade im that weary. I am heading towards 50 not 60.

But China or anything else is bullshit nonsense. Just say I DON'T CARE if you don't. I genuinely don't. Not even a jot. I care about things I think are important but I don't care about this, neither do millions of others. You probably don't care much about the things I do campaign against and fund, like child sex trading in Thailand to Britiah Ken and women I sponsor several families. I also sink a lot of my money into a tiny donkey sanctuary in Egypt to keep it open. But I do t give a shit about recycling, cars or any of the other stuff. I don't have to. It's not not regime.

@AntlerRose I get it. Thank you for plugging away for 40ish years.

@comeondover I find it really quite disturbing that people such as @Runciblefork support causes such as a donkey sanctuary and child sex slavery but at the same time refuse to even contemplate the thought that their own actions are damaging the future of the things they care passionately about. It's like painting your nails while ignoring a broken arm.

@Daftasabroom the analogy that often strikes me is that it's like being diagnosed with cancer. Some people do probably think 'fuck it' and carry on smoking. Some go all out in terms of treatment and lifestyle changes. The parallels go on. When one of my closest friends was dying of cancer, her exDP was quite vocal in his complaints about his cold. You're right, climate change is the metaproblem (or do I mean uberproblem?). But the animals and the children etc also need help and funding and advocacy and I'm glad that people are passionate and active in supporting those things too.

Sadly, reading some of the comments on the thread makes me understand how you feel.

I'm similar in that I follow many scientists and academics on Twitter (examples here and here) but don't often talk to people about climate change in real life. There's definitely a massive disconnect between the dire warnings issued by scientists at one end of the spectrum and people who don't even believe climate change is a thing at the other. Even in my own life I will often read climate-related news, or about the extreme weather events that are already happening around the world, and then get preoccupied with more mundane day-to-day matters.

One thing I have found useful is joining a community climate change panel set up by my local borough council. It's been an opportunity to meet people who are also concerned about climate change (and other environmental issues) and then to look at specific positive actions that we can do locally.

Maybe have a look at this relentlessly positive guy, OP?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Z._Jacobson

He's all about the solutions rather than sheer panic, first and foremost from the viewpoint of preventing pollution deaths and morbidity, but also makes a good case for transition to zero carbon for costcutting and climate reasons.

@GuppytheCat much of my work is in sustainability so I get to see what is being done on a daily basis and I'm really positive that we can engineer a positive future for our planet and our children. I'm also reasonably confident that businesses are coming onboard and committing to NetZero. Equally the government are spending pretty big sums on research and development, our biggest problem at the moment is suitably qualified and experienced people to develop the solutions we need.

There will always be organisations who drag their heels and hard right politicians and commentators who fundamentally don't care about the impact of climate change on the world's most vulnerable. But the apathy and discourse of delay among so many individuals is really worrying.

Just wondering if you could send some links on this, I'd like to read a bit more on it as have not seen literature suggesting this (but loads on cumulative effects year on year and how we are locked into temp increases going forward regardless of changes in any specific year).

I think I find it particularly hard with this group as they are really well off. Money is not a problem: whatever they choose to do, they can do it. Own two or more houses? Install a swimming pool and air con? New kitchen because the old one’s a bit old fashioned? Fly kids back and forward from the US for uni? 3-4 holidays a year? Not a problem. They have all benefited so much from globalisation - their husbands all work in oil / gas / manufacturing / pharma etc, and they are big earners. So while I reconsider that I, with my far more modest income and lifestyle, am also considered’ rich’ on a global scale, it’s particularly acute when a group like this says “what do you think of all this?”.

ATM being able to afford something is really the only limit on the choices we make - what we eat, how we travel, where we live, what we buy etc - and it’s only personal choice that might guide us not to fly, eat meat, put up with the slightly tired looking kitchen, go to the public pool rather than building your own etc. But everything I read tells me that this is not going to be enough, relying on virtuous individuals to make different lifestyle choices is not going to make much difference.

So at some point we will need to impose laws that affect these choices, so that rather than just being able to afford it or not people like my friends, and me, and most of us on here, simply cannot choose to do these things.

Realistically of course, wealth will still be a deciding factor. if we start to build the true environmental and social costs of flying, travel, manufacturing, mining, development etc into the price paid by individuals for goods and services, only the rich will be able to afford to do many of the things we take for granted. it’s happening in my city where it is being made more and more expensive and difficult to own a private car. If you drive a second hand diesel, park in the street because that’s what you can afford? Tough luck, in two years you won’t be able to do that. But if you can afford an EV and an appartement with a parking space? Carry on driving!

Thanks for the responses.

Maybe you don't need to talk about it in the context of other people's choices. If you're living your own life in a radically different way, people will obviously notice this and ask you about it. If you aren't, then I'm not sure that you are in a position to preach to others.

Model the change that you want to see.

@Labyrinthian Here is a link to a metoffice article and while some of the text is almost identical to @Singleandproud the conclusion is that there was negligible effect on global weather let alone glaciers.

Did the op ever come back or has she namechanged?

I suspect that she came on to virtue signal about how she was such a wonderful person, but didn’t get the response she thought she would!

I am also willing to bet that this topic of conversation comes up very rarely amongst her friends and family, but that the op is the one that instigates it, so she can lecture other people about their lifestyles.

The best laugh of all was the op complaining about one of her friends having children living in different countries and having the audacity to visit them. Bloody hilarious.
I’d book myself a holiday if I were you op. You really need to chill!

Thank you - interesting models. I used to work in climate policy area years ago and I'm not to speed on the changes in science in last ten years so it's good to read more

if we start to build the true environmental and social costs of flying, travel, manufacturing, mining, development etc into the price paid by individuals for goods and services, only the rich will be able to afford to do many of the things we take for granted.

Thats why I find Jacobson interesting. He argues that it’s going to be cheaper overall to decarbonise than to persist with fossil fuels.

if we start to build the true environmental and social costs of flying, travel, manufacturing, mining, development etc into the price paid by individuals for goods and services, only the rich will be able to afford to do many of the things we take for granted.

But this only applies if we carry on business as usual, which we aren't, or at least business and government aren't. Sustainable alternatives are being developed at an incredible pace. Yes there will be a transition phase which will favour the more fortunate, but ultimately the biggest hold ups are skills and consumer motivation.

Independent: ‘Staggering’ boom in offshore wind farms as projected capacity doubles in a year. www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/offshore-wind-capacity-china-climate-b2106809.html Some good news