To not know how to talk about climate change IRL?

[workwoes123]

I have an academic background in science, and an ongoing interest in it. I follow a lot of climate scientists and activists on Twitter, and read a lot around the subject. What I struggle to bring myself to do is talk to people IRL about it - even they ask me.

For anyone who suffers from anxiety (my sister, my mum) it’s just awful for them as it creates huge worries.

With others, my book group for example, it feels like preaching, telling them off for living their lives in the way they do (they are all pretty affluent, flying frequently for work and pleasure, multiple cars, big country houses, etc etc). When I’m spending time with people I like, I don’t want to be constantly challenging them on their choices / lifestyles or dooming and glooming around.

It’s similar with colleagues at work: they aren’t as affluent but they all drive, fly, eat meat, do up their kitchens because they are bored with the old one, shop as a hobby, run two cars so they can live in a bigger house / further from public transport etc - everything we are told will have to change.

But it’s bubbling up in me. I’m really not given to gloom and doom, but the cognitive dissonance between seeing the train coming towards us and pretending there’s nothing there is starting to get to me.

do you talk to people about this? how do you do it?

Maybe I’ll have to join extinction rebellion or something. Or, conversely, stop following scientists and activists and ignore it.

I feel like we're in a cul de sac as the human race. We honestly don't know how to reverse out. I've been scared for 40 years but also fatalistic, it's so big it just dwarfs every other problem. I can't really discuss it with others as I get a bit overwhelmed, try and take each day as it comes I guess.

In the nicest way possible you need some help to enjoy life again and not live in terr

Sleep meant terror. We aren't oblivious to it but we know how the elites are all enjoying life, fly and have fun whilst feeing the silly masses terror and fear again. Sorry but it's obvious

I think people both know and don't know at the same time. The facts have been widely broadcast and most people seem to be on the same page re the scientific consensus. (Not that long ago that the BBC would bring on Nigel Lawson for 'balance'.)
But because we're not seeing the massive, urgent and sustained response the situation demands (as we did see in the face of the pandemic), it sort of doesn't feel real. We see governments, corporations and other people largely going about their business as usual - with some eco tweaks maybe - but things don't feel that different.

I think I've written myself into believing we need more people making more noise, so it feels more true, if that makes sense. To break through the collective denial.

(I was going to tell you about how aeons ago, when I was vegan, I had a strict non-evangelising policy and only talked about it when asked. At different times, 2 of my flatmates went veggie without any input from me. I don't think they would have even considered it though without seeing me do it.)

So I was going to say you could take that approach, but honestly I think more clamour is needed. You sound well-informed and compassionate, and both of those qualities are much needed in the communication around climate change. It's so much to take on board. I can only do it in small doses tbh.

Good luck OP, and keep steady. I have a couple of activist friends who have burned out and that doesn't help anyone.

Another thing, tangentially related to the question. I think we need a regular climate strand on news bulletins. Climate is so, so much more important than some of the stuff that passes for news. Having it on regularly would normalise it and make it feel more real to more people.

@comeondover I work in research and I'd guess at least 60% of all we do has a direct focus on sustainability and ALL of the remainder has an indirect positive impact on sustainability. We do not take on work that has a negative impact on sustainability. We are funded partly by govuk and partly by industry so we see first hand all day every day the huge efforts being put into sustainability and restricting climate change.

But, big but. We work on very long time scales and we are STEM professionals. This means that the projects we work on won't deliver commercial results for between 2 and 30 years with the average something like 5 and 15. It also means that everything we do is peer reviewed in infinite detail and even if we know something to be true if we cannot publish until we can prove it.

The general public even the motivated and committed struggle to get their heads round all this. I struggle as do most of my colleagues and it's what we do all day every day.

So you are absolutely right that people kind of know but they don't know, and without that knowledge they feel powerless to do much. I find the fatalism here scarier than the ignorance TBH.

Or just keep your opinions to yourself and let everyone live their lives as they want to. This literally never has to come up.

How to talk about it in RL. In front of a mirror in a locked empty room because most people dont care.

I think you sound as if you think you are more educated, more intelligent and more worldly than normal people.

It's people like you that make me glad I have spent 25 years producing oil oil gas and making a fortune into the bargain 😛

P.S you think you sound clever but you really just read like any other middle class Google mumnetter stay at home women to be honest.

@waveyourpompoms probably the most narcissistic post for a while, congratulations.

And then I read @Runciblefork 's post. Sorry @waveyourpompoms you come second in today's narcissistic CG competition.

Op, Like a lot of environmentalists you live in a bubble.
TBH, most people are busy living their lives, paying their bills and generally just getting on with it.
Thete’s not a lot of time for navel gazing. I’m going to be brutally honest with you.
I rarely if ever think about climate change, and all of my friends without exception are the same.

Get yourself off Twitter. It’s an echo chamber. Live your life.Enjoy it as much as you can because it’s short and fleeting!

@Hellsbe the thing is, you and people like you are ensuring that your children's lives will be shorter and of lower quality than yours. So when you tuck them into bed or drop them off at uni make sure you say out loud "fuck you kids, cos the next year of my life is more important than the whole of your's".

All you can do is try to set a positive example in your own life, through your own choices and by visibly & consistently living your values.

Nobody wants to be preached at by self-righteous, sanctimonious judgemental dickheads and everybody hates hypocrites.

@workwoes123 re the friend you mention in your second post, with the children in 3 countries etc. She asked 'what do you make of all this?' And you asked how to respond.

My suggestion is, another time, see if you can get the other person to be more specific - what do they already understand, what do they want to do, what are they hoping to hear from you, for example.

And with your friends I hope you can be honest about how you feel. You can express your feelings of anxiety, dread etc about the climate without it being about their behaviours. In fact, sharing your true feelings might help them understand the gravity of what we all face.

I think the op needs to get some help with her anxiety. Her obsession, which happens to be climate change in this instance is stopping her enjoying her life.

Ok. Will do. I’m dropping my dd off to the airport later. I’ll pass on your wise words.😄

In working life, I look at and accept the plots and forecasts, and try to blank out the real life implications. I do talk to interested friends - if they want me to. We need policy changes, not bamboo toothbrushes. (DS is very much a “pack the bamboo clothes and eco wash while flying abroad” type.)

In personal life, well, I finally got an appointment for the solar panels to be fitted. Electric vehicle is trickier for multiple reasons.

Have flown twice in ten years. All that means, really, is that the family has missed out.

Are you OK? You sound a bit unwell. You do know you can't change anything don't you? Just get over it and live your life. Please also seek help if you really feel this deranged.

I am not sure what i would say to me if i were you. I believe in climate change and can see disaster heading our way. But i still run a car, would fly abroad if i had the opportunity, tuck into a burger etc. So i am exactly the person you struggle with.

I suppose i feel helpless, like the disaster is already baked in and even if the uk became a beacon of sustainable living it wont help as usa, china, india etc arent on board.. I feel totally disenfranchised in the uk anyway so even though i want sustainability at the heart of government strategy, im not going to get it. So i feel like hedonistically enjoying what i can whilst the ruling elites destroy earth.

@workwoes123 "the most recent question was ‘what do you think about all this?’ - ‘this’ being climate change. From a woman who lives in a €1.5 million house, has 4 children living in Greece, France, and the UK and who she visits regularly, a husband who works in a different country and has a house there too, and she travels to see him most weekends. Yet she’s a lovely person and genuinely thinks that because she’s not into clothes or shopping, that her lifestyle is low impact and quite frugal / green. Where would I start??"

Are you fragilising her and others like her? These are adults right?

If people can't hear an opinion 1. they shouldn't ask for it 2. maybe they should get out of the pram and grow up.

I'm with GuppyTheCat on this. Individual self-denying choices will not save the world (and I say this as a committed non-driver and non-flyer).

I do believe that technology and combined global action can save us from utter catastrophe. Amazing things have been achieved already, just look at the UK national grid. But the solutions are political not personal.

Hence I believe that what you can most usefully do when talking to your friends about the subject is not to harangue them to make personal sacrifices, but to make the case for the political choices which might do the job. Do your research and make the case for electrified transport, a decarbonised electric system, taxes on meat/dairy and flying, carbon credit systems, fracking bans, wind turbines even where they do interrupt your view, or whatever else you think might genuinely make a difference.

And when you hear people talking bollocks then challenge them.

When it comes to lifestyle choices, feel free to model the benefits of plant-based diets and plane-free holidays, but only insofar as it arises naturally from the conversation.

We as individuals can't save the world by recycling, but we might be able to save the world by voting. And by speaking up in a well-informed, friendly way, challenging ill-informed contrarian "it's not worth it" "vegan diets are worse for the planet because Gwyneth Paltrow gets her goji berries flown in from New Zealand" statements, and putting the case for achievable global action, then you can help make the right choices electorally viable.

I have to believe that this is achievable, because I've seen the effect on my children of believing that it's not.

But surely living in terror is not any better than those who are criticised for living in a state of denial? You are not going to change any of this single handed. It’s pointless being miserable when others are having fun. You have to somehow find a balance.

It's not climate change making you live a life of terror. It's a serious mental health condition. Please reach out to someone who cares for you.

@Runciblefork yes I can and do change things and I work every day to make the world a better place for both myself and my children. I'd suggest that's a healthier attitude than yours.

@AntlerRose both China and India have lower per capita emissions than the UK.