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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think working TTO has screwed me over a bit?

94 replies

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 09:58

I work TTO and for a long time believed this would be brilliant when I had my own family as wouldn’t have to worry about wraparound care.

The problem is in reality I’m starting to see it will translate as literally never having a break as either I will have my own children or be at work.

I get that as my own family grows this will not be such an issue but AIBU to think TTO isn’t as great as it sounds?

OP posts:
wallpoppy · 27/05/2022 11:20

Ask your partner to take some of his own leave during term time so you can have a long weekend or whatever you like without the kids. See, that wasn't so hard!

If your explanation is that he can't do that because he's too incompetent or untrustworthy to care for his children, or he won't do that because he doesn't want to, well, you're in good company, that seems to describe fully 80% of the men known to the women who post on mumsnet. God help you all.

Classicblunder · 27/05/2022 11:28

Theforest · 27/05/2022 11:04

Surely every working parent who has school age kids only takes leave during school holidays. I work all year but never take leave unless it's with the kids. They have more holidays that I do!

I take leave during term time - not loads but maybe 5 days a year. Sometimes to catch up on things at home, sometimes just to chill, sometimes to have a day out with friends or my DH.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/05/2022 11:36

Oinkypig · 27/05/2022 10:09

Do you not still get leave with TTO? Unless you work in a school which is only work during term time but isn’t actually TTO (as strange as that sounds!) TTO only means you only work say 10 months but you still get leave for those 10 months while not working during school holidays or is it just all your leave is arranged for school holidays and you still get paid 12 months?

I don’t know if I’ve explained that well but i hope you get it! if your leave is all arranged for school holidays then your husband should be taking the odd day so you can have a break.

You work every day (depending upon contract) that the school is open and often 5/10/15 days extra in the holidays and some evenings/possible weekend things.

As a result, your holiday entitlement is taken when the school is closed. However, the TTO contract doesn't pay you for a number of weeks where the school is closed, as the leave entitlement doesn't stretch to take account of all the closure days - it represents something around a 20% deduction in salary, so somebody with a 5 days a week fulltime TTO contract is paid the equivalent of working 4 days a week all year round.

For every hour(ish) a day reduced in those TTO work patterns, you then lose another 20%. So, for example, if you worked 30 hours over 5 days TTO, you're paid the equivalent of somebody working 3 days a week all year round.

And then the actual salary that you would earn in another job is technically reduced each month because it's paid over 12 months rather than the 10 you're actually working - as though your employer said 'Well, you've earned £1200 this September, I'll give you some of it now, but I'm going to hold on £100 to give back to you next August when I won't be paying you otherwise because I don't want you to work then apart from the weeks where I do because it's better/easier for me and you most likely wouldn't be able to cope with the concept of not being paid at the end of August if I didn't do you this favour'

It therefore makes it even more restrictive, as you can still end up having to find childcare for the entire summer, depending upon when they want the + days - they could say every other day (meaning you don't get a holiday at all), end of July, middle of august and end of August (so no more than a week at a time), two-three weeks in August (leaving you the last week of July and first of August for holiday and your spouse also having to try and get time off on that fortnight because it's the only one, especially as some childcare provision - holiday or childminder - will also be unavailable due to holidays in August) and you'll be in for training days before your own kids are back at school come September 1st.

The only advantage is where your children's school dates exactly coincide with your school dates, including early finishes, delayed start times and whilst your training days never match with theirs, their 5 training days are covered in their entirety by somebody else (husband?) and your childcare only takes leave exactly when you aren't required to be in work. Oh, and you don't need to attend Christmas plays, sports days, prize givings, see them off on trips, collect them early or attend parents evenings.

But if you're on the bones of your arse and don't have relatives/a spouse/ex to look after your children, having compulsory time off between Christmas Eve and New Year's Day can be useful, as you're not in the position of having to argue that you genuinely cannot get childcare for 27-31 December each year when others are saying 'well, I don't have children, why should I have to work on those days just because you do?'.

burnoutbabe · 27/05/2022 11:42

bridgetreilly · 27/05/2022 10:35

You’re thinking about this wrong. Neither of you should be taking leave while the children are in school unless absolutely necessary. When DH takes leave during the school holidays, that’s when you get your break from the children, or time for the whole family together.

Yes surely your husband should not be taking holiday during term time (unless funeral etc or hospital appointment) but during holidays like you?

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 12:33

The thing with the ‘how does everybody else cope’ is that everybody copes differently because everyone is different, people have different levels of support for one thing, different needs and different children.

I mean … I don’t think I’ve said that I am not coping, rather that I feel I never get a break, and you’re probably right and that’s no different to many working parents.

Haircuts can be done at weekends but it’s the general cramming of life into short spaces of time I’m finding hard. I dream of more flexibility I suppose. Maybe one day Smile

OP posts:
SoggyPaper · 27/05/2022 12:48

But surely the thing with a term time only role is that the pay is pro rata, just paid annually. It’s part time work, over the course of a year rather than on a weekly or fortnightly basis.

So you have more holidays than FT workers but at more fixed times. You can still pay for childcare if you’d like a day off without the kids. That’s what most people are doing - certainly if their children are under school age.

In fact, more as hoc childcare tends to be easier to find and book in days or individual weeks than during term time. You can book a single day of many clubs if that’s all you want. That stuff doesn’t run in term time.

I think most of us are perplexed because all our annual leave tends to be spent with our children too. Much of mine is spent covering DS being unwell and not at nursery. Or I take a week off to spend time with the kids.

I wonder if your problem is more that parenthood is relentless. And your husband could be doing more.

Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 12:54

I’d focus on positives Op. There’s pros and cons to every set up. If you want a day to self then ask husband to take kids somewhere for day. Sourcing and arranging holiday childcare is a big hassle. You’ve had to do nothing to prep for half term. In another role you’d have had to put in request for leave (no guarantees it’s popular week with everyone) then if no leave scramble to find some holiday care. The 8-6 sort can be hard to get then guilt of sending them especially if they don’t want to go etc.

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 12:59

I’m not sure I consider myself a part time worker, to be honest.

There definitely are positives, I’m absolutely not saying there are no positives at all, but there are a few downsides too and I hadn’t thought of this.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 14:24

You are part time of you look at hours overall annually. You probably get 8 weeks hols more than most people (13 weeks v 5 weeks) So 40 days extra off work. It’s similar to working 4 days and having normal holidays.
I’ve done various pt combos now ft. There’s no perfect answer.
I suspect if you went to normal not tto job you’d soon think I’ve used all my 5 weeks leave in hols, still not had a day off to myself and still got 8 weeks to cover why did I swap.

TheFallenMadonna · 27/05/2022 14:36

I'm a teacher and DH is not. Me having the same holidays as the children and him having flexibility to take time off in term time for eg sports day, assemblies, music exams, worked really well.

Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 14:44

How about suggesting to DH he takes some individual days leave in summer eg every Monday and you have time to self. If he’s had a few days off to himself then he can’t object.
How many and what ages have you got? If there’s someone with similar ages also off would they be up for a swap it gives you a free day and a change for them another day as they have friends over.

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 15:10

People who say teaching is part time are almost unfailingly being goady and trying to provoke.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 15:18

Not being goady. Teaching isn’t a TTO only job.
Term time only is usually option in local authorities or civil service etc. Some people opt to do TTO not 4 days PT. Horses for Courses. Money will probably work out similar.

darisdet · 27/05/2022 15:24

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 15:10

People who say teaching is part time are almost unfailingly being goady and trying to provoke.

Some definitely view it that way, rightly or wrongly. I don't think that's goady.

Complaining about not having time to yourself, compared to other full time, non TTO, workers could be viewed so. But we all have our challenges!

GlitterSparkley · 27/05/2022 15:26

I work full time and never get a break either because every single say of my annual leave allowance goes on covering school holidays - so I’m not sure how that would be any different to working TTO except if I did TTO I wouldn’t have the guilt I carry with juggling holidays and sending adD off to sports camps and holiday clubs that she hates? 🤷‍♀️

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 15:39

It’s not different, of course. What is different is when you have two parents and one works only term time and the other does not you do end up doing a disproportionate amount of childcare.

OP posts:
WeAllHaveWings · 27/05/2022 15:47

Every one of my precious annual days gets used to cover school holidays. I can't afford to use them to get a day off just for me.

Can't you send your kids to summer clubs etc when you are off to get a break? I sometimes still sent ds to some clubs that didnt run for the full day when I was off on annual leave. I had to take the leave to drop him off/pick up.

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 15:50

I probably wouldn’t to be honest. I do absolutely get the point that this is life for others. Maybe it’s just general lack of flexibility and spontaneity. I have wondered if part time work would suit me and my family more.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 15:57

Switch to a normal hours job if it’s not working for you. If it’s a DH not pulling weight issue you’ll be one arranging and rushing around to holiday care though I suspect.
If he’s taken 5 days leave in term time say you want equivalent. Easily done by him taking them out for day or paid childcare. The 9-3 dancing one my DD loved is only £75 for 5 days. Just because you are off work doesn’t mean you can’t use childcare.

SoggyPaper · 27/05/2022 16:00

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 15:10

People who say teaching is part time are almost unfailingly being goady and trying to provoke.

You are sounding touchy and defensive here. There is nothing wrong with not working FT and depending on the pattern, it may be more or less arduous.

It is part time on annualised basis. But very much full time when you’re at work. That’s no goady. It just is.

I do think the issue is more the relentlessness of life than the term time only thing. Most people with kids are either at work or looking after the kids. Weekends, annual leave. That’s how it is. It can feel overwhelming.

Especially if you feel like your husband is taking days off to himself during term time while the kids are at school and you can’t do that.

MarinoRoyale · 27/05/2022 16:00

luxxlisbon · 27/05/2022 10:08

The majority of people have to use their holiday to cover half term breaks, inset days, illness and then family holidays. By and large people aren’t able to just use them all for their own enjoyment while their kids are at school so I don’t think you’re in a massively different boat.

This! Most parents are either at work or with their children and have to use annual leave to cover holidays. My DH and I only take our main family holiday together and use the rest of our leave seperately to cover the remainder of the school holidays between us.

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 16:00

Not at all @SoggyPaper just refusing to engage with people being purposefully provocative

OP posts:
Femalewoman · 27/05/2022 16:04

I think a lot of parents will think lucky you working for money TTO. Lots of lovely family time when your children are home saving childcare during the holidays.

soapywaters · 27/05/2022 16:07

That’s how I used to think of it but I’ve realised it is very hard work!

Same for everyone else, I know.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 27/05/2022 16:10

Curious why you wouldn’t use childcare but are wanting time off? It’s only same as them doing gymnastics, football, dancing after school. Or outdoor activity style stuff - our local Guiding centre is very popular for holiday childcare for older children.
A lot depends on childcare available locally, age of children and their personality eg if they like sports clubs.
Have a look what childcare is available next week and for this summer. How would life look if you were 3 or 4 days a week and needing childcare.
It’s not spontaneous I’d have had my summer holiday care booked by this point when DD was primary age. There’s also the tricky age 11 ish where they are too old for childcare but too young to be left 8-6 day in day out.
I had 15 years of various PT combos (but never TTO). Nothing is perfect it’s all swings and roundabouts. Nothing wrong with saying this isn’t working and try different hours instead.