To not understand claims that life admin is 'not a thing'

[LabradorsInThePond]

I keep reading this on MN threads about organisation, time management etc. And that the life admin tasks of renewing insurances and checking mortgage rates can't take up that much time. But I spend a huge amount of time in the throes of life admin. We live a pretty normal, busy family life. I work 4 days in a professional role and can easily spend the 5th day (or at least half of it) in the throes of dreaded life admin.

My list tomorrow extends to twenty three separate items. None of which involve renewing insurances, but they do include buying clothing items (Scout shirt etc.), paying instrument hire, photocopying medical reports for school, booking airport parking, collecting worming tablets, booking a restaurant, buying zoo tickets, arranging a delivery of flowers for mum's birthday, an online grocery shop, buying a thank you gift, arranging a birthday party, booking a roofer, buying new windscreen wipers, emailing the GP, updating kids' Nimbl cards, finding a way to teach DS about dividing decimals, paying various people online etc.

None of these are yearly tasks, and next week there will be another 23 items to complete. It is relentless. DH does most of the house and long-term financial admin and he's also executing his father's too-complicated will, which makes my 23 items look like peanuts.

Do we just have an over-committed life, or does anyone one else find (what others consider non-existent) life admin burdensome and time-consuming? What am I doing wrong here?

Liking these tasks, or not calling them life admin, or saying they're 'just life' doesn't make them not exist and doesn't make them take any less time.

But lots of tasks do expand to fill the time you have. There's no need for anyone to spend hours picking out birthday presents or making costumes for nursery - so I think people just find it a bit silly when people choose to make work for themselves and then complain about it when there's an easier, quicker option out there.

Just as if I happened to enjoy doing, for example, laundry (I really, really don't), decided to not call it housework, and said 'Well it's just something that needs doing' wouldn't cancel out the time it takes to do it or mean that lots of other people dislike it or find it time-consuming.

But whether you call it housework or not, whether you enjoy it or not, laundry still doesn't need to be this big, time-consuming task that takes hours of your life to complete unless you're choosing to drag it out.

What works for me.

I buy presents that would be suitable for kids friends birthday parties whenever I see them on sale and stash them in the cupboard. Then when she gets an invite we just pick something from the cupboard. I also have a stash of cards and wrapping paper.

For friends and family if I see something I think someone would like I add it to an Amazon wish list, you can add things from any website not just Amazon, and I put a note saying who it would be for. That means when I need to buy someone a present I just go to my list and follow the link then purchase. Or if it's on sale when I see it then I get it there and then if I have the money and stash it away.

All of us have to do it. I think the issue people have is when posters claim they can't possibly work because there is so much life admin, and they break tasks up as follows,
Collect dirty washing from the basket, take the clothes out the basket, put clothes into washing machine, close door, open drawer, add wash powder, add fabric softener, close drawer, select cycle, press start. Whereas most people just say do the washing.

I agree OP and I don't see how people fit it in around a full time job unless their kids are older and more self sufficient (or unless when they are at work they are on their phones sorting out personal stuff out which is what quite a lot of my colleagues do, rather than doing the job they should be doing). Nope it's just that most people just do the jobs instead of making lists and turning them into a chore. DP and I both work 50hrs a week opposite each other with 3 under 6. We just get things done. And our jobs are on your feet all day, lucky to get a break in a 12hr shift jobs. I accep though it is easier for me than many on here because we're a team and my partner wouldn't dream of letting me do everything, he's a capable adult and we love each other so we split things without having to be asked.

If every day jobs are going to take forever to do then they are going to become a pain in the arse to do. If you do them quickly when eating breakfast, lunch (if you get a lunch break), waiting outside Brownies etc then it'll be easier. If you have someone to share the load then it's even easier still.

We share 'life admin' because I married a competent adult who doesn't use me as a skivvy.

Whether you're a SAHP, work part time or full time there is pretty much the same amount of shit to do. Of course some people have pets, medical stuff etc but the basics are all the same. How a family priorities and deals with it is what is different.

The amount of life admin people have to do varies.This week I have had (another) complaint to put in regarding provision for my disabled child and that has taken hours. It is not the same for everyone.

I tend to either do stuff on the go or spend 5/10 mins on an evening once I sit down to do a couple of bits. For instance today while walking the dog I've booked tickets to an adventure park for next week, ordered a birthday present for a friend, paid the milkman online and replied to this thread

I don't think I've rung the bank since about 1992

I guess it depends on the nature of your job/commute... If you drive to work and work as a teacher, nurse, doctor or whatever you don't have the snatched 5 minutes to do personal life admin. If you get a bus/train and work in an office these things just drop into your working day seamlessly - and they fit nicely into the commute...

@SquirrelFan I’m definitely not saying I’ve never struggled to think of a present, but in general with buying anything I’ve taught myself to not stress too much about it. There’s no right answer to find and it’s not a life changing decision. Mind, I’ve also dramatically cut down present buying anyway in the last few years. My and friends and I don’t buy for each other anymore and that makes life a lot easier!

I agree some people who are naturally organised seem to think the rest of us are lazy/a bit crap at life. Before I managed to organise myself laziness did play a part in my struggles, because I’m naturally inclined to lie on the sofa rather than be busy. But it was also just the way my brain works and I’ve really had to train myself. I definitely don’t think it’s a moral failing to struggle with it all. I’ve managed to work at it but it definitely doesn’t come naturally like it seems to for others.

I find it strange how everyone assumes that people live exactly the same sort of life as them with exactly the same sort of job and similar demands on their time. This is obviously not going to be the case.

This should be pinned to the top of every thread on MN!

‘Everyone’ isn’t assuming that though? Obviously some people won’t have a long lunch hour to do things - I don’t! People are simply saying the jobs op has listed out (booking zoo tickets and online grocery shopping) generally aren’t a full day’s hard work that need a person’s full and undivided attention. Personally if I had a whole day to myself to buy a scout’s shirt and book airport parking I’d be happy.

It is just life, we all have to deal with it...I could easily pad out what I'll do today book cinema tickets, spend too much on Amazon, order some plants etc all my choice hardly a chore. When did everyday life become life admin is this an mn thing ?

I agree to an extent but at certain times in your life it is harder and doing certain jobs it is harder. I barely go to the loo at work, let alone sit and book events. I have a short, rural commute with no phone signal so can't make calls. When I'm home from work I have max 2 hours with my young children before they are in bed and don't want to spend it on my phone. When they go to bed at 8, I do another hour of work. When I stop at 9 I really do hate feeling like I need to find new ballet shoes online, find a birthday present for someone and write a birthday card or whatever rather than sitting down and relaxing for an hour before I'm in bed and up at half 5. I already use the time the kettle is boiling etc to wipe around the kitchen. (And before I'm accused of being on MN in the daytime, I'm on annual leave!). I don't have these pockets of time in my day. I did and I'm sure I will again, but with young children and working 40 hours I just don't right now.

‘Everyone’ isn’t assuming that though? Obviously some people won’t have a long lunch hour to do things - I don’t! People are simply saying the jobs op has listed out (booking zoo tickets and online grocery shopping) generally aren’t a full day’s hard work that need a person’s full and undivided attention. Personally if I had a whole day to myself to buy a scout’s shirt and book airport parking I’d be happy.

So would most people I imagine and it's disingenuous to suggest they wouldn't!

There's definitely a slightly scornful assumption on this thread that everyone's list is roughly the same length and anyone who can't work through it in between other tasks is deficient or incompetent in some way. And that's without knowing the length of the list or the circumstances in which other people live. It's a rather blinkered view imho!

But people are responding to op’s specific situation. Which is a whole day off every week which she’s tried to ‘justify’ by listing out a bunch of exhausting chores (most of which are choices) that actually most people would love to have a day off to do only those.’

And actually that’s the only time I ever see these silly ‘life admin’ lists on here. It’s always someone explaining why they couldn’t possibly work full time/is a sahm. When actually these are just normal parts of life that the rest of us just do. If you want a day off enjoy it! Don’t feel guilty about it. Wish I could have one. But don’t try to drag out ridiculous things like ‘pick up worming tablets’ to make it sound like your day off is actually totally necessary to do ‘life admin.’

@NorthernLights5 interested in your comments - I wondered if you had wider support structures though? Do you have family nearby who can help with childminding, a cleaner, after-school care?

I think the problem with these threads is that everyone's experiences are different so what seems extremely manageable to one person may be more difficult for others.

Eg I have ageing parents who seem to need more and more support. So routine tasks expand and become more complex. I now seem to have picked up organising birthday gifts on behalf of my mum who doesn't do internet banking and struggles ordering things online. Then I receive cheques from mum which means a separate and lengthy trip into the nearest city as all the other bank branches have closed. So what should have been a 5-10 minute task ends up taking hours ...

Actually it was me who made the original point.

But to answer your points - Ops is a very broad remit, and yes, because you're competent and organised you get lumped with those kind of little tasks.

I'd also argue that the life admin tasks that are also admin tasks contain inherently little joy in them, unlike childcare vs being with your own child. Talking to the sodding broadband provider is joy free, regardless of whether you're paid for it.

I'm actually moving away from Ops because it's so tedious. People don't tend to respect Ops as a role because it's an accumulation of many different things, and they tend to feel that they're doing the "important" work of an organisation, whilst I'm doing the drudge stuff. To an extent, I agree.

But my "drudge stuff" has saved the companies I work for at least 10% on their margins annually, reduced employee stress and faff, all whilst being thoroughly unrewarding in emotional terms. I chose to move away when I found that I was jealous of sending staff off to do the interesting work time and again, whilst being pinned to my desk and phone.

Oh and it's worth saying that I am NOT someone who finds this stuff difficult. I'm wildly efficient. My husband is the one who faffs around endlessly choosing presents and making lists etc.

I get shit done in the least onerous way possible and immediately.

Bank card details saved to every app - no fetching purse. Pick up five of a nice gift and stick in a cupboard with dozens of cards in it. Do laundry when I feel like it and not to a rota. Tidy up as I go around the house. Everything on direct debit. I could recite every event in the calendar without looking.

But that's why I've been sidelined into tedious work.

Actually, I think the thread has moved on a bit.

But I knew it would turn in to a sahp v wohp at some stage, they always do!

Let's face it, that is what lies at the heart of all the sneering.

I don't get involved in those discussions as I have worked ft, pt and been a sahm during my parenting years. But I loathe it when one group oozes superiority and sneers at another.

@Kanaloa I didn't see the OP trying to "justify" having a day off. She was having a bit of a moan - like many threads on mumsnet! She'd probably be able to fit them in if she worked full-time, but she'd be even more stressed. As previous posters pointed out, people are different.
And I've never seen any thread where people "couldn't possibly work full time" - I mean, probably there are some, but it's hardly the prevailing attitude on MN!

I think that's the crux of it.

There are people who just get on with things and complete the task at hand as quickly as possible, with the least possible fuss made.

There are others who are dissecting and analysing tasks into minute detail making a bigger deal of them than is really necessary.

Someone said earlier they'd love to know the 'hack' 🙄for booking airport parking in a couple of minutes. I refuse to believe that anyone who can manage to navigate their way to MN can't Google "Manchester airport parking T1", for example, which takes you straight to the official site. You enter the dates, it shows you the available parking, you click your choice enter your reg' no. and pay - you can even use PayPal to avoid entering card details.

If anyone is making that into more than a couple of minutes of effort, I'd be concerned about them driving to the airport in the first place.

I’m not sneering at sahp! I used to BE a sahp. I’m just saying whenever I see normal everyday jobs dragged out as if they’re a full day of hard work it’s people justifying having a day off. I’m not saying it’s wrong to have a day off, I’m saying it’s wrong to feel you have to justify it by detailing how exhausting it is to book flower deliveries and zoo tickets. Just enjoy your day off.

I generally agree- though I think of “life admin” as pensions, insurance, bills, student loans company calls, better mortgage rates - that sort of thing.

Birthday gifts and cards, contacting nursery about arrangements, buying world book day costumes or getting the DCats to the vet I just see as part of everyday family life.