To disown my sister for being a narcissist and a terrible mother

[ritsbiscuits]

I don’t care if this identifies me, I’m so beyond sick of her. She is 2 years younger than me and has always been hard work. She put my parents through absolute hell as a teenager (drugs, a termination, casual sex with older lads) and her behaviour triggered depression for my mum, which she never really recovered from. I think my sister has a narcissistic personality disorder.

She got married at 21 to a lad who came from money. They’d been together 2 years and they’d met at uni. My parents were quite happy as they thought she’d settle down. They gave her £15,000 (which was more than half of their savings) toward a house deposit to buy with her husband. I resented not getting any money at the time but I was travelling around the world at the time and was partying in Australia living in a flatshare with friends, so I just assumed they’d give me a bit if I ever came to buy (never got round to it though). Her husband also got a huge lump sum from his parents and they bought a gorgeous property. It really was lovely. Semi detached, huge and in a lovely leafy area.

Despite having a degree she’s never had a proper job. She was married as soon as she finished uni and then was living with her husband and was soon pregnant. She had baby girl and then another baby girl just over a year later in quick succession. She was living the dream and even had an au pair, cleaner etc. Lovely car. Her husband had a well paying job. When her children were both in primary school (private, and her in-laws paid half of the school fees for them) she opened up a baking business and let a shop. It went under after a few months and she had the audacity to beg my parents for a bail out because she didn’t want to take a loan. They gave her £8000. I’d still not seen any money from them. They were scared she’d go off the rails because of her erratic personality.

Her business managed a bit longer after that but after a few months she had to close it. For years after that she just did nothing. She is high maintenance and always had her hair/nails/face done. Whenever we saw them she was vile to her husband and always shouting at him.

4 years ago her and her husband ended up divorcing, he left her and she was distraught. Their kids were 9 and 11 at the time. She took them off to Florida for 3 weeks, me, mum, dad and her ex-husband thought it was genuinely just a holiday. Then while she was there she posted tons of pictures of her and the kids with some random man. We found out she’d met him online just after the divorce and had gone over to meet him. Her ex husband was incensed that she’d taken the children to meet him.

She came back from this trip pregnant, (‘accidentally’) which surprised none of us. Pre-divorce she’d been talking about wanting to move to America and her ex-husband didn’t want to, which is partly why he left her. We all believe it was intentional. Cue her then declaring she was moving over there. Her ex husband took steps to prevent her taking their children (who didn’t want to go). She had the baby in the UK. She had the nerve to ask my parents to contribute some money for her to give birth in a private hospital in London (where she’d had her older 2, on her ex husband’s/in-laws money), and I made sure they said no because it was fucking ridiculous. My mum was consdering it though. The poor thing had to settle for giving birth in an NHS hospital and we never heard the end of it. She withheld the baby from my mum who was desperate to meet her for ages and said it was because she was annoyed over them not paying for her to give birth at the private hospital and she felt ‘let down’.

She went back to the US for a few weeks not long after the birth with the baby and married the father (this was only their 3rd time ever meeting).

After more drama over her 2 older kids not wanting to go and her ex not letting her take them, she has now decided she’s going to leave them and move to America permanently with her youngest daughter. She’d have gone earlier if not for Covid. She’s leaving my older 2 nieces with their dad. Both of her older girls have been completely messed up by her behaviour. One of the girls hates her and can’t wait to see the back of her whereas the other one is absolutely distraught and has been begging her not to go (to no avail).
The younger one also begged to go with her (she didn’t initially want to go, she was just distraught at the idea of not having her mum) and her response was “I can’t take you because of your dad.” These poor girls are really suffering. They also both hate her husband and are resentful of their youngest sister. I have become quite close to them in recent months. Though my sister hasn’t actually gone yet they’ve already moved in with their dad and she barely sees them. Her excuse is “they both hate me”. I wonder why? But I opened up a line of communication with her ex husband and said if he ever needed support with them then let me know, and I’ve been spending time with them. I wouldn’t say as a ‘mother’ figure but as a female figure for personal things maybe they don’t want to talk to their dad about.

My mum wants to throw her a leaving do, and I’ve said I’m not going. She was upset after hearing sister’s ex husband wouldn’t be bringing the kids to the leaving do and when I said I was on his side she had a huge go at me and has accused me of being jealous. My mum is now not speaking to me. I can’t even feel angry at my mum, I think my sister has just completed broken her spirit.

My AIBU is am I in the wrong to be completely disowning her, I’d go as far as to say I hate her. I’m worried sick for her youngest daughter as well. Her new husband isn’t a particularly upstanding citizen. I don’t really have a reason to post but I just need to vent. I have a husband and young children of my own but he is sick of listening to me vent about her.

She's going to find being borderline poor in Florida really miserable. If you like Florida, it's nice if you're rich. It's a really shitty place to be poor. She'll have difficulty getting any kind of mortgage on minimum wage. So she'll have to buy outright or at least put down a hefty deposit. She'll have probably $375k, which might get you a decent small condo on the outskirts of things, but nothing like the houses you see on Home and Away.

If he's on minimum wage, he'll probably have no company health insurance. He'll be bringing in $20,000 a year, with no pension, no insurance, no benefits, for two adults and a toddler. That's below the poverty line, let alone the living wage.

My guess is that they rent, burn through the money, and she gets some sort of job and they struggle. It can work. It won't be easy. It will be a hard lesson to learn.

Also, @BoDerek, if you think objecting to someone abandoning their kids to move an ocean away makes the OP a bad mother, I shudder to think what you find to be good parenting.

Please don't let this damage your own relationship, and your own family. Seriously, this is a real risk.

If your partner is already fed up of hearing about this, and your own kids are having to take a back seat and starting to feel that they're not important, your sister will potentially be destroying another family.

You may need to step back somewhat. The girls are with their dad now, and he's their parent, not you. Only give what you can give without risking your family too.

It might be that you need some counseling to manage this and get the balance right..

Yeah. She’s an asshole.

No cure for that.

Wow well done OP for being there for your oldest nieces. What a sad situation your sister has created.
If it was me, I would go extreme LC rather than NC.
There may be times on the future when her girls want to make contact or you need to tell her info about them.
I also think that disowning her fully would provide her with the perfect dramatic hand-grenade for her to turn around and blame you for her leaving her elder two daughters etc etc.
Don't give her the satisfaction! Wave her off to the USA, then focus on your family and your nieces. I think building a relationship with their dad will be key too. He may be wary of you given how your sister is, but he could do with support and he is still kind of an uncle to your kids. It would benefit the girls to see that you two are working together to help them heal.

I must be OP’s sister too then because I agree with every word of this. I’m not saying your sister comes across too well either, but you seem almost seem to be relishing in her downfall and enjoying taking her ex husband’s side against her. I just feel very sorry for your nieces stuck in the middle of all this hate and vitriol.

Yanbu.

I must be OP’s sister too then because I agree with every word of this. I’m not saying your sister comes across too well either, but you seem almost seem to be relishing in her downfall and enjoying taking her ex husband’s side against her.

Yes me too, leaving her children is horrible but all the rest doesn't really matter. For example why go on about how she won't even be able to afford a nice house in Florida, what does that matter to you? Why does it make you angry to think that she might live in a smaller house. Lots of people do after a divorce. And saying she shouldn't even be recieving money from the sale because she was a SAHP, thats not how it works if you are married.

@Nancydrawn

Also, @BoDerek, if you think objecting to someone abandoning their kids to move an ocean away makes the OP a bad mother, I shudder to think what you find to be good parenting.

That isn’t what I said though, is it? Why do you twist my words?

First of all the sister is not abandoning her children, her ex has refused to let them go so let’s not get too theatrical about this.

Secondly, I haven’t said that the OP is a bad mother, those are your words. She may well be, she isn’t coming across well here. But I feel for her kids having their mum so bitter and irrational, I can only imagine how unpleasant it must be to live with someone so steeped in bitterness.

OP’s children are young and she clearly has no clue how it is to parent teens. In fact all she does seem to know is how to create drama.

This is not actually her business. The nieces have parents. They have grandparents. OP is inserting herself into her sister’s business through the lens of jealousy and bitterness, nothing good can come of this.

I know I am not your sister because I have four sisters and we all get along brilliantly.

Interesting to me though that you post on AIBU then throw your toys out of the cot when someone disagrees with you. Why is that? We’re you expecting everyone to agree with you because you are so enraged?

I grew up in a family, I have my own family, I have a wide network of friends and am well aware that familial relationships can become strained.

But what is very clear to me about you is that you cannot accept the notion that you have a part to play here. Your part is to focus on your own life and what you can control. Trying to control others as you are doing by frantically trying to dissuade your parents from supporting your sister and by teaming up with her ex against her, those are classic signs of controlling behaviour. None of this would bother you if you focused on what is within your control and let go of the rest.

What exactly has your sister done to you apart from lead her own life?

All we have heard is your very bitter take on the way she lives her life. As far as I can tell she isn’t an axe murderer, a fraudster, violent or abusive. All that is clear is that you disapprove of her.

Honestly, you will be damaging your own family by obsessing about this. You admit that your own relationship is under stress, does that not give you a clue? Or do you blame your sister for that too?

You really need to work on building emotional intelligence if your own family is to survive your behaviour here.

Bloody hell! Why would you write such a long, specific, identifying post on the www?

There’s a lot of high octane drama here, and it’s important that you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and the long term possibilities.

It is highly likely that she will come back from the US, with or without her youngest child.

At the rate she’s eating through your dm’s savings, your dm could be facing serious poverty in her old age particularly if she develops health issues.

You have a family of your own to consider, and you need to be disciplined about meeting your responsibilities to them first.

Have you discussed this with your dh - I know he’s hearing all the drama, but have you two actually sat down and talked through what this means, and could mean, for your family?

I was paraphrasing, not quoting. You can't call someone bitter and miserable and then say 'your poor kids' and then be astonished when someone paraphrases that into 'bad mother.'

I happen, actually, to agree with you that the OPs frustrations with her sister's behaviour and choices, above and beyond where it hurts the rest of the family, aren't helpful.

But I'm afraid I disagree with you that she's not abandoning her kids. Of course their father wants them to stay within a reasonable distance. But what a responsible parent does is not say, "well, then, bye!" and move four thousand miles away to a place where she's never lived before. Just because their father refuses to let their lives be uprooted to go and live in Florida with a man their mother has met three times doesn't mean that he's forcing her to leave them. It's her choice. She's abandoning them.

Just wanted to say that you're doing great, and your nieces are lucky to have you. I have a major narcissist in my family and his neglect (and that of his wife who is completely under his thumb) of his children is really quite shocking.

For example, when his daughter attempted suicide he was beside himself with grief that the neighbours would find out, and never lifted a finger to help his child who was clearly in crisis. His mother and his wife think that he can do no wrong, and went along with his bullshit and continue to do so to this day.

The girl's aunt stepped in and looked after her for a few years, and saved her life. There is absolutely zero thanks from the parents of course, and whilst the girl in question had initially been thankful, she is now back into the fold of the dysfunctional narcissistic family dynamic unfortunately. But it was the right thing to do and we'd do it again in a heartbeat- so fair play to you. Don't go to the party, keep speaking the truth to your mother no matter what nonsense she comes out with, do what you can for your nieces and look after yourself.

I think your sister probably has some kind of personality disorder.
Your mother really should be called out for enabling, supporting and encouraging with her compliance.
A leaving do is madnesss - is your mother nuts? Spell it out to her.

All you can do now is be the best auntie in the world to the girls, reach out to your brother in law and you both do your best. Try and get a counsellor. Cut ties with your sister fully.

@BoDerek

So disingenuous to say that saying "your poor kids" to someone isn't tantamount to saying they are not a good parent.

At least own what you say.

I don't get the angst - best thing that could happen for the DDs that their horrible selfish DM clears off out of their lives.
Hopefully other family will rally round for the girls, I would get counselling for the younger one.
Good riddance - but I wouldn't be surprised if she turns up again in the future.

@Ferngreen it isn't the best thing that could happen to them. The best thing that could happen would be having a loving mother who cares about them. Being abandoned by a parent, however shit that parent may be, leaves a primal wound. Yes alright they're better off without her influence but there is a lot of damage done already that will take a lot to unpick. That's not 'angst', that's trauma.

Be there for your nieces, because you genuinely appear to care for them and their wellbeing and if their DM is as erratic as is suggested, they are definitely going to need a female role model around (your DM enables your DS behaviour, btw).

I would recommend trying to let go of some of the jealousy and/or anger you hold toward her though. I'm not saying she's behaved brilliantly, and she may very well have a personality disorder or other mental health concerns that contribute to her acting in this way, but some of her behaviour will stem from the way your parents have handled her growing up. Some of what you write really does come from a place of jealousy and I do get it, it's shit to be in the shadows of someone who has dominated the family dynamic for such a long time, but put it this way - if she goes to the US, she's gone. You can look to be the role model to the nieces, and hopefully look toward repairing a relationship with your Mum. I would also recommend getting some counselling/therapy to release some of those feelings you have, which will also help you focus on your family rather than the actions of your sister.

OP, people who haven't lived in the close orbit of a personality-disordered relative won't get it. Hence they are trying to blame you for "jealousy / bitterness / insert usual slur aimed solely at women here."

Because they are viewing the scenarios through the eyes of reasonable people, & cannot fathom the depths of unreason a (eg narc or borderline) person will go to, or how debilitating & costly it is to deal with these individuals.

I've just posted this elsewhere - nicked from another PP a few months back).
Posting again now in the hopes it gives you comfort, & the less well-informed a useful analogy for understanding the crooked dynamic imposed by family members like your sister.
Obviously, swap the nouns/pronouns around to suit your specific situation, but this is how it goes:

Don't rock the boat.

I've been thinking about this phrase a lot lately, about how unfair it is. Because we aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.

At some point in her youth, Mum/MIL gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.

The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?

Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.

A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did.

When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Now you and your DH get a boat of your own. With him not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.

While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!

So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and DH see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier.

You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.

While you are not being unreasonable and it is brilliant you’ve been so good you do sound so angry and bitter and I wonder what having nothing to do with her will do to the children on top of their mum being as she is? They need as much normality as possible. There is a chance they still love her and the eldest is just stung as she should be of course. As for your sister I wonder what she’s chasing? So sad for your nieces but hopefully someday she comes to her senses

Just wanted to say so sorry for what your sister is putting you and the family through, thoughts especially with the children. I do hope your little 3 year old neice is properly cared for too, it sounds like she could easily be discarded in America if her new boyfriend and US life doesn't work out. ☹ What a mess.

As for your sister I wonder what she’s chasing?

Supply.

mantracare.org/therapy/narcissistic/narcissistic-supply/

Your parents have a big part to play in creating and feeding this monster.

Can you ensure your Mum is involved as possible in her older grandchildren's lives.
That's where she can do some good and focus her energies, and they need as many people as possible that love them.
There is nothing anyone can do about your sister so distancing yourself as much as possible is the answer.
Definitely don't go to the leaving do.

You do still sound bitter and angry at her for your parents choices ..
They were the ones that gave her the
15k and were going to give more ..

Your mums the one that wants to throw the party...shes enabled this massively.... your almost sounding like a martyr /saint auntie so you can say look at me I'mthe good/nice one....pick me pick me not her shes bad..... you even say this is at the expense of your own family unit.....thats not healthy.....you may want to focus on them 1st

your nieces have their dad and don't need you stoking the drama all this girl talk stuff ...many girls are brought up by their dads. ....was this your usual aunt role before ..??
What about when he gets a new partner where do your see your role then ....
A lot of this is from how your parents have treated you growing up.... have a look on yhe stately homes threads on here and it may help you set some more healthy boundaries