To expect a landlord to have told us this before signing lease?

[Lexi334]

Moved into a rental a couple of months ago. Let through a large local letting agent.
We viewed the property with the agent, submitted our application then the landlord requested to meet us herself so we came for a second viewing at the property with the landlord. We were here for an hour while she showed us a round and generally chatted about the property.
We got the keys a couple of weeks later and came into the property to find a “handbook” with all kinds of requests to do with the house:

• which garden plans should be watered on which days, and when each particular plant should be pruned


• under what circumstances we can/can’t use the outdoor access to our back garden (mid terrace) - allowed to walk round the side once per week to take bin out and once to take bin back. No other access for any reason!


• boiler pressure needs to be topped up every 5/6 days - it’s in the attic 🙄

Pretty annoying and odd but it is what it is.

I arrived home from work a couple of weeks ago to find a Gardner in cutting the grass in the back garden. When I asked him what he was doing there he said the landlord asked him to continue doing the front and back gardens - grass cut, borders tidied and weeded, pots maintained - at a cost of £40 per fortnight “to be paid in cash or by bank transfer by tenant” is what she’s emailed him.

Not long after I’ve had a window cleaner put a note through the door saying the windows were cleaned and we now owe 2 payments. It’s £12 per fortnight. Again, contacted them and the landlord has requested it. Again, to be paid by the tenant.

Ive spoken to the letting agent who contacted her (this process takes about 10 days to get a reply back 🙄) and she says this is regarded as “general upkeep” that we need to do on the property and she prefers it done to her standard by a “trusted professional”. So on top of the rent that I’m paying (which is already very high for the area), she expects over £100 a month to be paid in “general upkeep” too.

Surely this should have been disclosed before entering into a lease? Obviously I planned on maintaining the windows/garden etc but surely it should be my choice as to whether I do that myself or pay someone else to do it?

I think it's normal, too.

I've lived in my house for 29 years, am on the 3rd boiler, and every one of them needs topping up from time to time. Every plumber I've had says it's normal. It's no big deal, just like turning on a tap for a minute or so.

The latest one seems to go the longest between top-ups, so maybe it's less of a thing with newer boilers.

yes, boilers do need topping up, once or twice during winter.
This one needs it every 5-6 DAYS.

That is not normal at all and suggests a leak

I also can’t just hop up into the loft every couple of days due to disability. This tenancy is going to be painful by the sounds of it op unfortunately.

I think the LL knows how ridiculous they're being, too. I wonder if she may have asked the agent to include those conditions in the agreement and they refused, as it wouldn't be enforceable, so she thought she'd try it on.

It's quite normal for a tenancy to have clauses saying the tenant must keep windows clean and the garden in good order, but I've never heard of them specifying how, or who should be employed to do it. I've also come across tenancies where the rent included the costs of gardening and/or window cleaning in the rent, and the agent or LL got them done.

Either way, OP, you don't have to pay either of the tradesmen as you haven't agreed to do so. However, as you plainly have a batshit LL, I'd go through everything else with a fine toothed comb: gas & elec safety certs, "how to rent" booklet, EPC and details of where the deposit is held, as they may be playing fast and loose with other stuff.

Once you're sure all the paperwork is fine, tell her you're not prepared to pay the window cleaner or gardener as these costs weren't mentioned at the time the agreement was made.

I've also never come across a house where the boiler is in the loft. That seems really weird, I have no idea why a plumber would install it there.

Was there any need for this? I thought this was a friendly page to help one another ☹️

Was there any need for this? I thought this was a friendly page to help and support one another ☹️

Agree with the once or twice a year topping up. You usually need to top up the pressure if you've bled the radiators or something but not every week!

If a LL wants very particular maintenance doing, they really need to tell the potential tenant before they sign up and also organise for someone to do it. It is not reasonable for a tenant to be asked to regularly top up a boiler.

So, some LLs will organise for a yearly boiler service and perhaps also something like yearly hedge cutting or tree pollarding. They might pay someone to yearly service the drains. These things should be at the LLs expense and should be very infrequent and carried out by workmen. It is not okay to specify things like monthly window cleaning at tenant expense. You can require the windows to be clean when property is vacated and garden in decent shape but not the regularity of grass cutting etc.

Large, luxury properties might need lots of maintenance and the tenancy might include something like weekly gardner or pool maintenance contract or security service.

This particular LL is struggling to back off from the property and leave the tenant to quiet enjoyment. It is a vital pre requisite for a successful LL and tenant relationship. Properties with boilers which need regular attention from a tenant are not suitable for letting. The vpboiler needs repairing or replacing so it doesn’t require someone to do this. Currently the property is inadequately equipped or the LL is requiring a level of attention that is unnecessary and unreasonable. Either way, the situation cannot be allowed to continue.

I only needed to top up with my bo9iler when it had a fault

obviously theyre all different

Boiler pressure should only need doing once or, at the most, twice a year. That's from both an independent gas registered engineer AND a boiler installation company who recently installed my new combi boiler.
It had got to the point with the old Ravenscroft that I was re-pressuring two or three times A WEEK.

Letting Agent here…. Even if these were included in the TA, they would be considered unfair terms.

Yes, you should look after the garden and keep it in good seasonal order (that will be the wording in the TA). It should also be in there that you should clean the windows regularly, that’s pretty standard, but she can’t dictate how or when.

The Tenant Fee Ban that came into force back in April 2019 prohibits you being charged anything outside the rent and deposit or anything to put right anything that wasn’t maintained by you during the tenancy. Therefore she cannot enforce the charges for windows or gardening and it’s actually illegal for her to!

Finally, the rear access is a Right of Way, or easement, if it doesn’t impose certain times for use in her deeds then you can use at will.

Ona no if the boiler needs topping up that regularly it’s because there is a fault that needs repairing soemwhere!

What’s the window washing obsession? I’ve only ever heard of this obsessive window and bin washing on this board.

She can't require you to pay her contractors to do this. End of. Your tenancy you're responsibility. Estate agents need to be tough with this landlord- they won't be so consult citizens advice about refuse yo pay the bills - she has instructed the contractors nitvyou. You can do all these jobs yourself.

also ref access, she needs to request each and everytime and give notice to you. You can agreed to the weekly wheelie bin thing but stipulate timings if it's going to disturb you. Everythubg ekse adk her to drop yiu a note about giving minimum 24 hour notice. You have the right to refuse eg if youre havibg a bbq with friends around.

What a nightmare.

Of course you don’t have to pay this.

I’d get citizens advice to word a letter to you to send to her and the agent. They will also advice on you stopping the tradesmen.

cheeky bitch

Absolutely mental.

And they need to see to that boiler, that's either a faulty part or a massive leak.

One of the troubles is that expectations can be so high.

When people work full time all year and only have 1 holiday a year of 2 weeks abroad, a massive mount gets emotionally and financially invested in it. It becomes a mythical family time for lots of people and fails to deliver.

One reason this happens is that people end up feeling guilty. If they work long hours and their kids are in childcare, they feel their kids should get 24/7 attention on holiday and be spoilt rotten. And then the reality is that it’s hard work and not fun being with the kids 24/7 and parents can feel both guilty for feeling like that and also entitled to a holiday. On one level they want to entirely indulge their kids, but at the same time this makes them poorly behaved. Add in the fact that parents are often truly exhausted before the holiday, the pressure they place in themselves to provide fun times can mean they are even more exhausted after the holiday. It’s tough.

I’m of the view that simple is good with young children. Short journeys, simple days, as much familiar in the routine as possible and low expectations and no busting the bank….these can deliver happy times. Being in a heatwave, long journeys, activities that were hugely expensive and make you feel pressured to have an amazing time - probably not the best way to have a happy time if you’ve got 14 days to be away.

People like different things, but with. Small children, I can see why something like EuroCamp has been so popular. You can go to a warm climate with your car full of all the stuff that makes life easy. You can have wonderful accommodation if you are willing to pay, or much cheaper if you don’t want to. You can stay somewhere where you eat out every meal if you choose or do your own thing if you prefer. You can have full on entertainment included or a sleepy little place if you like it. There can be kids clubs if you like them and other kids to play with or you can be secluded from other people if you want. There’s the option for sight seeing or being in a city and there’s the chance to be in the beach or playing by the accommodation and barbecuing if that’s what you want. It might not be thrilling and not quite measure up to the pre - child travelling, but it can deliver relaxation and happiness - and those are probably worth focusing on much more than an exciting location.

@WombatChocolate you have almost certainly posted this on wrong thread

Mine are 40 years old and used to need topping up every week (nothing wrong with them we have the original instructions that say that)

Thank you!

This drives me up the wall. We ALL know what the OP said. We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t. 😁