To expect a landlord to have told us this before signing lease?

[Lexi334]

Moved into a rental a couple of months ago. Let through a large local letting agent.
We viewed the property with the agent, submitted our application then the landlord requested to meet us herself so we came for a second viewing at the property with the landlord. We were here for an hour while she showed us a round and generally chatted about the property.
We got the keys a couple of weeks later and came into the property to find a “handbook” with all kinds of requests to do with the house:

• which garden plans should be watered on which days, and when each particular plant should be pruned


• under what circumstances we can/can’t use the outdoor access to our back garden (mid terrace) - allowed to walk round the side once per week to take bin out and once to take bin back. No other access for any reason!


• boiler pressure needs to be topped up every 5/6 days - it’s in the attic 🙄

Pretty annoying and odd but it is what it is.

I arrived home from work a couple of weeks ago to find a Gardner in cutting the grass in the back garden. When I asked him what he was doing there he said the landlord asked him to continue doing the front and back gardens - grass cut, borders tidied and weeded, pots maintained - at a cost of £40 per fortnight “to be paid in cash or by bank transfer by tenant” is what she’s emailed him.

Not long after I’ve had a window cleaner put a note through the door saying the windows were cleaned and we now owe 2 payments. It’s £12 per fortnight. Again, contacted them and the landlord has requested it. Again, to be paid by the tenant.

Ive spoken to the letting agent who contacted her (this process takes about 10 days to get a reply back 🙄) and she says this is regarded as “general upkeep” that we need to do on the property and she prefers it done to her standard by a “trusted professional”. So on top of the rent that I’m paying (which is already very high for the area), she expects over £100 a month to be paid in “general upkeep” too.

Surely this should have been disclosed before entering into a lease? Obviously I planned on maintaining the windows/garden etc but surely it should be my choice as to whether I do that myself or pay someone else to do it?

boiler pressure needs to be topped up every 5/6 days - it’s in the attic

I haven't read all the replies so don't know if anyone else has said this but a combo boiler shouldn't be losing pressure that quickly, there is almost certainly a leak that needs fixing ASAP. If you don't top up and the pressure drops too much the boiler could cut out and not work, however, if you accidentally top up too much there's a rather more worrying possibility of it going pop. You really shouldn't need to touch it at all as any normal amount of pressure drop would be corrected at the yearly service so I'd be very wary of fiddling around with it. Sounds like you've got a real pain in the arse landlord, I'm afraid.

Is there actually a lock or anything on the rear access? I don't see why you can't use it as and when you please. There is presumably a right of access across it that is unlikely to stipulate twice weekly access for bins only in it.

Can you clear up the garden situation OP? I don't really understand it from your posts.

Obtaining services or money by deception is a criminal offence. Point that out to the letting agent and the landlord. Give them a very short period to reduce the rent to match these undisclosed costs, or withhold rent until they agree.

She sounds barmy.
Once you’ve signed the tenancy agreement , that’s it. If it’s not in she can only add by mutual agreement. Landlord can provide a window cleaner etc.. but at her expense, you are not liable to pay.
Was the house her home? This tends to happen with people who have an emotional attachment to a property.
Expecting you to go into a loft to fiddle with a boiler is also unreasonable.

Please don’t withhold rent, that is absolutely not the answer. @Lexi334 is absolutely within her rights to dismiss the gardener/window cleaner, but withholding rent =shit reference and the ll starting the eviction process. The rent can’t simply be reduced on an AST. There’s a contract in place (which doesn’t include watering specific plants or paying the gardener/window cleaner!)

Boiler is really worrying me, please get it checked out /find safety certificate
The rest is utter crap you don't have to pay any of it.

I am a LL and I have never heard of anything so rediculous. Tell the Gardner and window cleaner you do not require their services and will not pay in future. You will be managing upkeep of house yourself. Contact agent and complain about boiler. Does it need repair/service? What would happen if you forgot to top up? Do you have current gas and electrical certificates? If not ask for them to be done.

I think unless you were told that there was no access to the garden at the viewing a reasonable person would assume that there was access to the garden in a property with a garden, and may well - especially if they have a young child etc - have made the decision to sign the contract on that understanding. I think you should go quite tough on that, OP, as well as the insane upkeep charges - the boiler thing too is nuts, that's not a boiler that is fit for purpose. Basically, go on the attack because you have been mis-sold etc.

It’s not access to her own garden, it’s access to her garden from the back (ie without going through her house) - to access her garden from the back she’d have to go through her neighbours garden (quite common in a mid terrace) and that’s why it’s only permitted to take the bins in and out. She can access her garden from her own back door any time.

I bet the reason that this is the first time she’s using an agent is because her tenants kept leaving when she managed them directly. She’s not cut out to be a landlady under any circumstances and YANBU.

Oh wow, I didn’t expect that number of responses - thank you all 😊 I’ll take all your advise on board when dealing with the LL and the agent.

Regarding the garden issue - just to clarify, I have absolutely zero intention of using it as regular access. I had specifically commented to the LL when we viewed the property with her that having the back access was so handy if baby was sleeping when I got home and I could just pop round there and put my feet up for half an hour rather than wresting with asleep baby/stairs/pram/shopping etc and the stairs, and it wasn’t mentioned at that stage that that couldn’t be done so I was a bit annoyed when I came in with the keys to find the note about limited access. And I genuinely do mean that it would be infrequent - we’ve been here a couple of months and there is one day in that time that I would have liked to use the access for the pram. Every other day I use the front door.
It actually never clicked that there had maybe been issues with previous tenants using the access as a main access way - I’ll speak to the neighbour and ask him. He seems nice enough although definitely isn’t one for chit chat 😊

I'm not sure if I can describe the gardens/access without a diagram and I can’t draw to save my life 🤣😅
Terraced block of 4 houses. Ex LA - all in the block are privately owned - 2 of the 4 then rented out. Front gardens are straight off the pavement - each has 6/7 stairs, garden path then another 4/5 stairs to front door. Going out the back door there are 2 stairs down onto a path (this runs the whole length of the block). There is a tall fence blocking access between the middle 2 properties but no gates/fences between the mid/end on either side of that makes sense? The bins for each house are kept along the path and there is then a set of 6/7 stairs off the path up into a raised garden for each property. These are all properly fenced. To the side of the neighbour on the ends property there is a small patch of grass with a path running through it that joins onto the start of the path running along the batch of the block of 4. The grass area is council owned and maintained. There is no gate or fence between the end of the council path and the start of the paved but behind the houses. So the paved are behind the house, while obviously still being your property isn’t “garden” as such, it’s a path for bins. All windows are above head height so walking past I couldn’t see in neighbours window. And if he was in his garden he wouldn’t even see me walking along the path due to the fencing and the garden being raised. Regardless, his property is his property. I just thought it was weird to specifically specify the number of times it could be used 😊

no idea if I’ve described that properly at all but that’s the best I’ve got 🤣

Rather late replying, but hope this might help anyone in a similar situation.
We also had a boiler that kept losing pressure. This went on over several years and no leak could be found, despite many BG engineers coming out to look at it. Eventually one got lucky and noticed there was a hairline crack in the drum-like bit inside the boiler (sorry for the non-technical description!).
When cooled down (ie. when the engineer could open it up and actually look at it) the crack wasn't visible, but obviously it heated up when the boiler was switched on, the crack expanded and the pressure went down. Not quite sure how the engineer finally spotted it, and it did need replacing with a new boiler.
A PP that had been advised that the whole system needed replacing might find this info useful 🤞
Good luck Op dealing with your landlord; she sounds a right PITA!

Yes, @peachgreen I completely right. I absolutely do have access to the garden from my own house 😊 this is specifically regarding accessing it from the back access rather than through the house

That is really normal for a mid terrace though. I owned one and was only allowed to use that access path with the bins. If you were the neighbour people would advise you not to allow access at any other time.

Not only is this unreasonable, it is unlawful unless written into your tenancy agreement and thus contracted. She can't enforce it. Make clear to the contractors that they have no contract with you and you are not responsible for the payments. Make that clear to the landlord also. Refer her to the terms of your tenancy which relate to quiet enjoyment of the property and the circumstances in which she and her agents are allowed access to it. And then look to move as soon as you are contractually able to.

Also adding to the voices saying the boiler needs to be checked. We had one that was also losing pressure on a regular basis. I got a plumber in to look at it. He opened it up and immediately our carbon monoxide monitor went nuts. I could actually feel myself get light headed within seconds. The CO readings were off the charts.

We had to evacuate the house immediately, stay away for hours and and ventilate it thoroughly. The boiler was condemned. It cost nearly 2k to have it replaced and it was less than 8 years old, but in hindsight I think we had a very lucky escape.

Correct. Don't withhold rent. You are contractually obliged to pay it. You do not appear to be contractually obliged to pay the rest (windows garden etc) unless your contract says so.

our system used to require the pressure topping up -it was standard and not an issue (but it was in the the bathroom)

Whilst it's def not acceptable- I personally would be happy to pay this as I've yet to get a window cleaner or a gardener that cheap!! But yes I agree it depends on your budget and was up to you to say yes or no at contract point- !! Not her to unilaterally impose it

I hadn't realised that unrestricted use was quite so uncommon in most terraces, must be down to our local aversion to using the front doors. There's a steady stream of vsitors, deliveries, postmen etc all traipsing past my kitchen on any given day

It's not up to the neighbour. If there is a right of way (or similar) through their garden you can use it as much as you like. It's just a part of owning a terrace. (If this is what your deed / covenant says)

And not traipsing through their garden whenever you like just because you can is part of being a good neighbour.

Some covenants are very specific though. Ours is just a standard right of way, access at all times, don't obstruct and joint responsibility for maintenance but the access is a very defined path, quite separate to the gardens. Doesn't affect us as the entrance to the right of way is the other end terrace and ends at our garden. It does also specify you can only go as far as your own house, so we are the only people that can cross ours neighbours part but the first house has 4 households that can cross their path. We also have a covenant saying we can't use our back door as our front door.

Where as some are very specific, particularly more modern ones like OPs excouncil house which will have been built after council bin collections were set up and they realised the need for rear access, particularly if bylaws forbid bins in the front garden, or a different covenant.

I also live in an end terrace with similar access for the house in the middle. They have access over both of our end terraced houses (3 in the row). This access is meant for maintenance etc, carrying large items to the back of the house for example. The neighbour in the middle house keeps his bins in the front as he has a long garden and a lot of greenery to hide it behind. It’s not meant for wandering backwards and forwards in front of someone’s windows all day long, unless there is a common acceptance between neighbours as a moral issue. But it does depend on exactly that it says in the covenants for the house in question. If I was your neighbour and you asked if I minded every now and again crossing with the baby to sit in the garden without waking them, I would have zero issue with this personally.