What’s the general MN verdict on donor eggs?

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The general critical re-examination of surrogacy is quite evident, and I have my own views on that, which I’ll keep quiet for the purposes of this thread.

Now I find myself chewing over other fertility treatment. I’ve had fertility treatment myself and so have family members. So I have a sense of how private clinics put you on a conveyor belt and normalise things.

What is the general view on donor eggs & embryos (implanted into the birth mother and gestated by her)?

Im trying really hard not to bias the result so have tossed a coin to assign YABU/YANBU to viewpoints. Don’t read into that.

YANBU = Donor gametes are ethically fine.
YABU = Donor gametes are problematic.

For me my DC was my DC because they grew from my egg. I didn't feel any significance from gestation, labour, lactation.

I think it's fine. How many women on here are actively encouraged to keep their kids away from their fathers? I think that's far worse than having two loving parents who you just so happen not to be biologically related to.

I've never had to go through fertility treatment, fortunately, but I wouldn't judge anyone who does. I'd do the same in that position.

This is from a website linked upthread which I found interesting. Overwhelmingly the view of this survey is that conception should not be anonymous, and most of those who we conceived from an anonymous donation found it harmful. Most feel the identity of the donor should be available from birth, whereas now it’s from 18. The question I found most interesting is that around two thirds of respondents said that their parents weren’t aware of their true feelings regarding being donor conceived.

Fair enough. Just bear in mind that, going by mumsnet, trans rights are the most important political topic of the day - yet polling shows that for the electorate at large it’s not even a top 20 concern.

The only time I’ve ever heard something like IVF spoken of negatively is when people say the NHS shouldn’t fund it. But that’s as far as it’s ever gone. I don’t it’ll boil over anytime soon, but we’ll see.

I did have a very strong reaction to the fertility nurse saying “We like to say it’s like being given a missing ingredient to bake a cake”. That probably worried me more than anything, as, for me, that was a completely inadequate narrative to give a child, and downplayed the genetic aspect too much.

Who knows, maybe if I’d found a more convincing (for me) narrative in the timeframe, it would have topped me the other way?

Anyway, I agree that being able to explain it adequately is a fundamental issue.

Considering the numbers of infertile people who experience mental health issues, depression and suicidal thoughts, I don't think the argument is as clear cut as you make out.

I stand by my point that people who haven't experienced it can't truly know.

Obviously everyone can (and should) contribute to the debate. But if you have not walked in these shoes, you really cannot know how it feels.

It is something that needs extremely careful regulation and rules, but it is not inherently wrong to donate eggs and sperm or to use them to conceive a child.

Except that's not remotely true. There is a huge amount of thought that most parents who use donor gametes put into it. That has been my experience of talking to other parents.

My child is 16 and donor conceived. She has always been fully aware of it. She is considering getting in touch with her biological father and/or siblings when she turns 18 and we will of course support her in whatever she chooses to do.

We used to go to donor conception network meetings, primarily so she could meet other donor conceive children but she has no interest any more so we stopped going. She says that being donor conceived is the least interesting thing about her.

She is the spitting image of me.

OOH, you’re probably quite right.

OTOH, the internet is quite useful for hearing things people are too polite to say IRL.

I suspect there are a lot of people who only think about it in depth when they need to.

I think creating any child is selfish though, it’s all about what you want, if it was about giving a child a good home you would adopt. It’s about fulfilling your own desires ultimately. Very few family situations are perfect, I think if you can provide a child (whether your own biologically or through donor conception) with a loving, stable good home then that’s better than what a lot of kids get growing up.

We nearly used donor sperm to have a baby. Dd1 was unexpectedly born with a serious (fatal) genetic condition so rare that we don’t know if she inherited it from us. Without children I felt my life would have no purpose and I was nervous about taking a risk and having to hold another child as they died in my arms. As luck would have it, we’d had 3 failed rounds of fertility treatment when I fell pregnant naturally (by accident) and we have 2 healthy DC.

As others have said, unless you’ve been in this position I think its shameful to judge.

Actually I think this topic should be given far more consideration and discussion than it is. It's ethically very complex.

Oh thanks! That’s a goldmine. I’ll read that now.

As others have said, unless you’ve been in this position I think its shameful to judge.

No, I think we need to be careful with this line of argument. It's not just prospective parents we need to be thinking of. It's the donor mothers and the children themselves. People's desire for a child doesn't trump what's right for those individuals.

What a load of absolute nonsense.

Parents of donor conceived children have been through so much more on their journey to become parents, and will have thought through the ethics and implications of this more than you can possibly imagine.

When using a donor to conceive, counselling for the parent(s) is obligitory to ensure you have explored your own feelings and those of the child conceived.

By the time a child is conceived, they have thought an awful lot more more about parenting and providing for the potential child's needs than the vast majority of people who conceive naturally.

Of course there are many opinions on this complex topic. I agree people have the right to discuss it despite the sensitivity.

I just wanted to add my voice as someone who has been through multiple failed NHS IVF rounds. We were told in the end that it would only be worth trying again with donor eggs. Despite being in a distressing situation, it didn't feel right to me. It was a step too far for me personally. So we don't have children. I don't see it as a right and we can't control everything in our lives.

Parents of donor conceived children have been through so much more on their journey to become parents, and will have thought through the ethics and implications of this more than you can possibly imagine.

From their own POV perhaps. I wouldn't be sanguine they've thought too much about the donor's.

If that was a survey of their own website users then it’s likely to be heavily biased, as I imagine most people who have no issue with being donor conceived don’t use websites created to support people who are struggling with it?

Indeed.

Nobody is bringing children into the world for altruistic reasons.

Especially not now, with climate change, the rising cost of living, and all the various crises that humans are likely to live through in the next 100 years.

You are not choosing to have a child for the child's sake. You are having the child for yourself, however they are conceived.

Anyone having a baby is making a selfish choice, let’s not pretend that’s a trait exclusive to people who suffer from infertility.

There are a billion ways that children, conceived naturally or not, can be affected by their parents choices. Research shows that children conceived by IVF have good outcomes.

I have frozen embryos, with my eggs and my partners sperm. If we have any left over, we would seriously consider donating them. To destroy them would seem like an utter waste of potential life.

Well in that case you would be wrong.

As someone who may have to use donor sperm to conceive a child, I have thought a lot, and deeply, about the ethics, including the donor and the potential child.

This is why it is problematic when people who are not in the situation themselves judge those who are. You do not truly know what the journey entails or what people go through.

Cross posted with Elsie and Cookie

Anyone having a baby is making a selfish choice, let’s not pretend that’s a trait exclusive to people who suffer from infertility.

I don't think anyone is pretending that, but there's a difference when you're involving others in your decisions.

Well in that case you would be wrong.

In all fairness, you're not in a position to judge that. This needs to be looked at dispassionately with everyone's rights and requirements carefully considered.

It already has and that’s why we have the laws and regulations we do…