DH and career, salary

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To preface this with, this issue is not new and has been a source of tension between DH and I ever since we got together decades ago. But just had yet another fight with DH regarding his job and whether he should look for something else.

He's been in his current position for three years now, no salary increase and no promotion - and realistically it just wont happen, they said so. I've been trying to encourage him to move on. He admits he doesnt like his job or sector so it's not like he loves it or anything but just doesn't know how to look for anything else.

And frankly am fed up. We used to live abroad where he was in the same position for ten years - no promotion and just inflationary salary increases. We came back due to my job so he found the first thing he could and basically it's the same thing. But by now we have DC and London is really expensive (his current job is also half the money he earned abroad). By now he's 42 so time is not exactly on his side. And I appreciate that 55k is not nothing, but he has three degrees and is working in a professional job.

From my side I do work full time - in the sector that he used to work in and by now earn more than he does. But it's a public sector ish job and I wont be able to find anything in the private sector (those jobs just dont exist). Realistically my pay progression is rubbish (max I will ever earn is probably 70kish) but I do have a lot more flexibility and annual leave so do more of the childcare.

Am just really fed up. With the cost of living going up along with interest rates - we have a big mortgage - and I dont know how to convince DH that he needs to find something else. He accuses me of wanting him to earn more money - like thats a bad thing or something. Am I being unreasonable or is he? Any tips on how to change things.

She's already said that he isn't happy where he is or with the job

It's not unreasonable to want to split home and childcare responsibilities 50/50. It's also not unreasonable to want to live within your means rather than using savings for what sounds like luxury day to day spending.

Maybe have a discussion about these things and put the ball in his court to find alternative solutions? "It's fine if you want to stay in your job, but we then need another way to fix these things as this is not sustainable".

If he doesn't agree these are problems, then you can either accept things as they are and wait until kids are older to pursue your career, find a compromise position, or reconsider whether this is the relationship for you.

@ThorsBedazzler it isn’t helpful to say “help him find a new job”.

You need to tell her how she does that, if he doesn’t want to engage with that.

I’m interested in whether this is just one issue of a highly struggling marriage

i suspect it is

I can tell you from experience (quite similar experience, sector-wise, even the funding of extended study) that you cannot fix his job for him. You can't make him apply for something he'd like more, or get him to do anything to change his own situation. You will drive yourself mad trying to, and will end up hating him for it (or at least, that's what happened to me).

What you can do is sit down together to look at your current income, current outgoings, identify if you are spending too much, and if so, decide as a team where you are going to cut back. Call this a temporary cut back, if you must, until your financial situation changes. But he has to be the one to put that change in motion. It's incredibly frustrating I know.

I ended up leaving the relationship in my case, he was so miserable and life was horrible and I just didn't want to spend my life with someone who was doing naff all to help themselves and making me miserable. We were only in our 20s though, and renting, so an easier decision to make.

Hi OP

I initially clicked YABU but reading your updates I've changed my mind.

Essentially you seem to be bearing the main responsibility for family finances. And main responsibility for children. Meanwhile he moans about his job every day (says its soul destroying) but refuses to get a new job (as job hunting is soul destroying) either that he enjoys or that makes more money.

And addition to all of that, he refuses to spend less, and wants to live beyond family means up to 10k pa, which is going to get worse with inflation. This means that it puts more pressure on you to juggle the finances.

He has to do two things -
Decide to make the best of his own job and stop moaning OR take the plunge and find something else

Decide to make more money OR cut back spending, because his current approach to outgoings vs income is not sustainable.

I'd suggest outlining the problems (that you are struggling to hear the same issues with his job year after year, and your family finances are looking increasingly unhealthy) that you want to discuss and setting some time to do so in a netural place away from the kids (coffee shop or something) with all the figures in black and white (perhaps including how much he has complained about his job in the last month) and see if he can come up with some solutions himself. If he can't control spending it might be that you have to take a tighter hold of it (eg transfer him set amounts for set things) but I don't think that will help your relationship

Would he consider marriage counselling otherwise?

You are being unreasonable to be leaning on him to move jobs to the extent that you are. You have a good joint household income.

£55k is a fairly good salary in my book, even though I realise that it is half of what he used to earn.

I think though that he too is being unreasonable because it seems he is unwilling to cut his cloth to suit the finances. He does sound as though he is a bit profligate with some of his spending habits and this has caused the £10k shortfall that was withdrawn from savings. It is this attitude that is not sustainable. Lean on him to change that more than leaning on him to change jobs. Would that work better, or will he just dig his heels in?

If he does dig his heels in on the spending habits then that rather than the refusal to change jobs would be what would annoy me.

Just to give perspective, we live in London and our combined income is £ 150,000. We have two DC. I am by far the lower earner and consequently, I do the lion's share of childcare and housework. He should be doing that. I don't like to use the word "sponger" in a marriage, but certainly the lower earner needs to be doing more of the childcare and hwork ( if healthy). We also budget and save because DH plans to retire early. (By the way, DH is diabetic and needs a special low carb diet, but we manage it at less than half the cost you mention)

I think most posters haven't caught up with your update which is about him being a spendthrift, not about you wanting him to be ambitious.

We probably do need marriage counselling but with two little kids and no family nearby, I just don't see when we'd find the time or money. But I probably should get him to sort out our budget. Currently he thinks as we have savings - we can just live off that, as he says - what are savings for.....I tried to explain that they are for a rainy day but he doesnt listen.

I hear you OP, I’m in a very very similar position in the same sectors. It’s been a source of tension in my marriage over the years too. We’ve been in couples counselling over the last year and in a much better place at the moment. Broadly you can’t change this - my DH is also not terribly salary/ career driven and I did know this on marriage although may have been looking past it. I’m dealing with it by pivoting the next stage of my career to earning more - choosing a MSc which leads more into commissioning/ executive/ board level roles and out of my particular area of healthcare leadership which has a similar salary ceiling to yours.

You need as much as possible to map out the next 10 years with him and see what is possible - could you take on additional work (tutoring, exam papers..?) , change direction a little etc. What do you need to achieve that? I cannot believe in our WFH world of 2022 that he cannot negotiate ANY flex about pick ups/ early starts/ late finishes to support his fair share of DC care - has he formally requested this? Or do you both need a new budget if extra finance really isn’t possible? Consider if a third party mediator such as a couples counsellor would be useful for a few sessions. Money/ jobs often carry so much additional meaning about self worth/ value that they can be tricky areas

To be perfectly honest OP

he doesn’t strike me as the sharpest tool in the box

Savings are for if one or both of you lose your jobs, or fall ill. Has he not learnt anything from Covid? One of my friends has long Covid and hasn't worked for a year. I would find this very, very frustrating. You are financially incompatible.

Also re couples counselling prioritise the time and money. The alternative is more
expensive and more traumatic.

I also have two young DC and we waited until our marriage almost blew up before doing it. It should have been much earlier and has been worth every penny

I really think you should read and consider the all the comments but ignore the voting on this.

I know you can’t put everything into an OP, but I bet that if you started this thread next week with the fact from post #10 that he’d spent £10K from saving this year (awful if that’s 12 months, but do you even mean just 2022?!) the voting would have gone the other way.

You still would have got replies about not pushing him… but I think the vote would have gone “your way” over his ridiculous and selfish over spending.

MN generally isn’t impressed by people who can’t live on £110K (with two tax allowances!) so his need to piss away £10K would have gone down badly.

I started off thinking you were being unreasonable but actually understand your frustrations now that I have read all your posts. You both have well paid jobs but to get promotion in academia, you need to do lots of unpaid work like speaking at conferences etc. Your husband's job doesn't give him any flexibility in terms of being able to do school runs etc. so he can't help with that. He doesn't like his job either. That last post of yours about helping fund him while he finished his PhD makes it seem as if these problems go back a long time.

i don't really think it's about budgeting. Let's hope for the sake of our higher education system that he can subtract expenditure from income. It's about him refusing to accept that your lives have changed now you are living in the UK with children. How would you both feel about counselling? He does come across as a bit entitled. It's all very well him complaining about capitalism when he likes the trappings of a capitalist lifestyle such as expensive gym membership and premium food shopping. Ideally counselling would allow you both to talk about your aspirations as individuals and as a family.

This is one of those threads where post 1 makes me think YABU and posts 2-13 make me think - the hell haven’t you divorced this arse yet?!!!

^^ This. I didn't really understand the issue from the first one. But it sounds painful in the extreme. In a way I feel for him. I'm also a failed academic working a dross job - it is soul destroying. But then I waltz out at finishing time and count myself lucky I don't have to care about it, and do all the childcare/being flexible. I'm kind of stuck in my job because it fits around the kids and is flexible. I don't love it, but I appreciate that it enables family life and DH's high pressure job.

He has several options for making things better, but they all involve changing jobs. Whether it's for satisfaction, money (which appeared to be the only issue in the OP), or flexibility doesn't matter. He needs to make a change. And honestly I would consider binning him if he wouldn't pick one and go for it. You'll have a lot of opportunity for work catch up during his contact time....

On your latest post - savings for a rainy day: job loss situation vs only having £110K…

You are clearly financially incompatible.
This has been hidden twice at least:

• once by you by being young and in love and that’s just what you’d do for each other - the PhD, you didn’t know that was a pattern, the first time


• by having a fucking amazing income with no kids

But now you know you’re incompatible.
I don’t think it’s possible to change attitudes like that - he’ll always be one to just spend and not worry, to take. But what you can do is establish the dealbreakers and whether you can live with those, and care enough about each other to accept their dealbreaker.

Your preference might be to have £100K in savings and to continue to saving £500 a month and overpay a mortgage.
Your compromise might be to just settle on the £100K savings as untouchable but agree to spend all income.

He might think you only need £20K savings and that money is for spending.
but his compromise might be to agree the £100K locked away if you let him spend current income to the last penny.

You won’t align on this, only compromise. You have to work out if you can compromise, and not waste energy trying to align.

Stop talking & start acting then.

Have you taken any steps to protect the family savings pot from his predations?
It's hard to stomach the notion of a man earning £55k also soaking up £10k's worth of extra spending because he refuses to live within his own means.
Given that profligate overspending, I'd be moving the family savings to a separate account so he can no longer rob them to pay for eg the luxury food he refuses to cut back on. What's the point in discussing it with a man so entitled to waste your joint money & security?

Once you've secured the remaining savings - see everything @DrinkFeckArseBrick & @EastEndQueen wrote, & do it.

If he still won't hear you - well you've supported him & his moaning & overspending for a long time. How many more years are you going to tolerate it?

Yabu about his job and about him earning more. It makes you sound very grabby and totally unreasonable.

Yanbu to expect him to live within his means without eating into savings. And yanbu to expect him to step up and do his fair share of childcare.

Oh the complaining about capitalism just makes him sound like a bloody teenager!

He sounds like a misery git. Tbh no matter what others say, your combined income is still low if you are living and London and when your husband is spending like a rich person. Mortgages here are also higher and having a high income also means that you are not supported by the government and pay more in taxes, so basically your take home pay will be similar to someone earning less than £50,000. He is living in denial isn't he? He needs to get a reality check and get a new job or learn to live within his means. spending £10,000 from savings doesn't sound very good. Can you not just put all your savings in ISA's and keep a little bit aside for emergencies so that he doesn't end up spending all the savings?

You are in a stalemate situation really.Your DH is not really bothered about earning more money/changing jobs .You cannot force him.The point is its familiar to him .If he has to change job he will maybe feel under pressure.With 2 salaries you are not exactly stretched. He is obviously an intelligent man with 3 degrees but these dont always equate to higher salaries . Maybe suck it up .or think about a divorce .The latter seems counter productive though .

I've only read your posts. But I think he sounds like a complete wanker. Let me sum up:

1. He hates his job... but refuses to consider looking for a new job.
2. In addition, he whines and complains about his job, bringing you (and in time, the DC) down. All the time.
3. You currently earn the same but apparently there is zero flexibility for him so you do all the childcare, drop offs etc.
4. Just a guess here, but what about things that could be done from work/at lunch time? You do that too don't you (eg, I just spent 15 minutes going through the 6 emails from the school received in the last 3 working days, diarising sports day, mufti days etc to our shared calendar. I bet you're doing that sort of thing, not him. even though he absolutely could do that during the day.
5. He overspends and you are currently working your way through your savings due to things like expensive holidays, gym memberships and overpriced food?

I think the fact that he's not ambitious is the least of your problems.

I don’t get it
he’s been like this the entire time you’ve known him it sounds like, I’m not sure why you’re expecting him to change.
if finances are so important you shouldn’t have moved back to the uk where his would be cut in half - unless you now earn more in which case you’re still better off
if get it if he wasn’t working, was PT, or was not covering bills but your household income is over 100k

you say you can’t become a professor because of childcare issues. Surely on over 100k you can afford after school clubs, or childcare? Other people make it worse on far less.
so it seems like rather than making it work with your own career you are complaining at DH who already makes a respectable wage.

do you need more money? I know more money is always good but is it worth the constant fights? I took a wage hit recently because I was working such long hours and was so stressed and unhappy that it was having other impacts on my life, so for me it was worth losing some money for a happier life. Obviously I’m lucky to be in that position but it sounds like you are too, if your worst case is a household income over 100k a year

“Can you not just put all your savings in ISA's and keep a little bit aside for emergencies so that he doesn't end up spending all the savings?“

This is the approach I take with my 13yp. With her agreement, a nice big balance as she walks past Urban Outfitters is too tempting - so I remind her periodically to move money into a different account.

Can I just emphasise that’s she 13?

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, and it’s certainly the right thing to protect it.

But my sexual desire for a husband would leave the building if I had to move money because I couldn’t trust him not to spend it.