AIBU to feel like a failed feminist? (Re division of work/childcare/housework)

[HelpIHaveNothingToWear]

I work part-time (school hours) in a good career for which I trained a long time. I enjoy my job and have good promotion opportunities (though it will take longer due to being PT, and sometimes I worry that I’m not taking seriously because I work PT).

My husband works FT 9.30-6.30. When he’s at home he’s very hands on. However, because of our hours I do all the after school childcare, cooking and a lot more of the house work (we have 3 kids at primary school). Some afternoons are nice (a play in the park after school) but many afternoons I spent doing cooking/housework/taking kids to clubs. I’ve never been resentful before but it’s starting to grate on me that my husband gets the more “fun” aspects of family life (eg days out on the weekend) when I’m doing a lot of the mundane crap during the week.

I could technically increase my hours and go full time, but I don’t like the idea of my kids spending every afternoon in wrap around care (there’s nothing wrong with that but I was that kid and hated it). I also do a lot of life admin in the afternoons and if I worked FT we would have to do this on the weekend. In an ideal world my husband and I would both work PT but that’s not possible for him in his industry.

It’s starting to bug me that we lack this balance and equality in our marriage and I’m almost annoyed with myself (from a feminist perspective) for being in this position in this day and age. Other days I’m grateful to have a well-paid intellectually stimulating job that I can do PT.

Does anyone relate to this? If so what changes did you make to your life or how did you come to terms with it?

YABU: Shove your tiny violin up your ass and suck it up, bitch.
YANBU: I know how you feel and it’s tough.

In an ideal world my husband and I would both work PT but that’s not possible for him in his industry.

Oh I bet it is and I bet women find a way to. He just doesn't want to, because it could hold his career back like it does for women. Your DH is the failed feminist here and you are enable his 'important man job' nonsense.

The problem with part time working is that it isn’t. It’s usually condensing your full time job into fewer hours. Which is more stressful on its own, then you add another full time job (the home) into the mix.

I could have written your post. Pretty much every last word ( except PT not an option for DH), including the feminist anguish.

It is hard. I love my career. It’s a huge part of who I am. I can’t do it well full time, I’d be negligent within a month. It got so hard for me that I needed to see a therapist because for a while my life and my value system kept colliding and it was very perturbing. But my disabled child needed me more than my colleagues and I had to reframe what I understood feminism and a good life to be. I’m not advising you get therapy, I had a particularly bad case!

I agree there is nothing inherently anti-feminist about your life. It sounds a lovely family life, with a supportive husband and thriving kids. It’s a balance that (nearly) works for you right now. Don’t use feminism as stick to beat yourself with. It’s not what it’s there for, and that’s part of the patriarchy game.

Fair and equal in a marriage doesn’t mean both doing the same thing, for the same amount of time. It means finding a way of life that works for you and your family, and both parties being motivated to do so.

I get why you don’t want your children in after school care. The afternoons you spend with them are just as valuable as time in paid work. Devaluing this time is also part of the patriarchy game. If you can outsource cleaning and streamline life admin, do so.

Best of luck!

OP, I get what you mean. I work part-time while husband is full time but I was a SAHM for years which meant it was quite hard to adjust our expectations.

I generally do all the mid-week cooking/shopping, cleaning and appointments - clubs, dentist etc.

What helps me is that we have a joint email account so we can both read bills/school/club related emails. So he has no excuse not to know everything too (including pick up times - see below). He also attends the secondary school consultations (easier now it’s zoom but he used to go in person too).

DH also does all weekend clubs (there’s only 1!) and most evening pick ups.

He is responsible for weekend meals. If I know beforehand what he wants to cook, I’ll buy the food when I go shopping but if he doesn’t tell me then it’s up to him to buy.

We have an en-suite bathroom that he cleans (he wanted it, he cleans it)! I do everything else except empty the dishwasher and the bins (his domain!).

My DC (11.15.16) are responsible for cleaning up after themselves. They make a mess, they clean it. They also change their own bedsheets. I do all laundry but DH does his own - he’s particular about his shirts.

It took a while to get us to this point (oh the mental load!!) and a lot of resentment (on my part). It has gotten easier as DC grow up as they can do more for themselves, and also we do less of the ‘family’ time as they’re out doing their own thing.

I dont think he is being unfair but I do think you're taking too much on.

You're working school hours and you shes three young kids. After school you should be looking after the kids, helping with homework, and ferrying them around, and cooking their dinner. That is what this time is for.

Instead, you're also doing life admin and cleaning and any other errands in this time. Why? If you saved it to the weekend or the evenings youd have another adult to help or less kids around becsuse theyd be in bed. You're picking the busiest time of your week, when you're solo with 3 kids who need to be different places, to get stuff that can be shared, done.

Does your husband ever do this admin or house tasks when he has 3 kids solo? I doubt it, however he is obviously willing to do more if he tried to drop his hours before.

I'd make after school til the kids come home exclusively for the kids. Otherwise if they are watching you do housework they may as well be in after school club.

Get a cleaner

Give your husband some admin jobs to do on his commute / lunch break

Share other jobs out on an evening when the kids are in bed or work together with the kids to blitz the house or garden or whatever for an allocated hour on a weekend, its only an hour and with a few people working at once you can achieve a surprising amount

Alternatively you can put them in after school care one day a week and use thst time to do a fair amount of jobs so you're more present and less stressed the rest of the time

@Tamzo85

Fucksake 🤣🤣

Op i think things are fairly equal between you and your oh.

You work less hours so you do more stuff at home.

How would it be equal for your oh to work more hours and do an equal amount at home?

The only other way for it to be equal would be for you to both work full time and share the rest (you dont want to do that) or for you to both work part time and share the rest (your oh doesn't want to do that)

I feel like a failed feminist too OP. I had a career that I loved and since having children, one with a disability, DH has been promoted numerous times and I am now a SAHM while he works very long hours. It makes sense that I do everything in the week, but it’s hard not to feel resentful. I clung onto part time work for 13 years after my eldest was born during which I didn’t really progress and then gave up after a period overseas with DH’s job. I agree it’s the patriarchy and as others have said, your DH would no doubt have made part time work for him if he considered himself the main care giver for your children. I don’t know what the answer is. I’ve seen friends work themselves into the ground maintaining a career with children in their late 40s/ early 50s and the kids start needing more input once they hit the teen years and exam years. I also don’t have the ambition and drive that DH has, but I feel very uneasy not making a financial contribution and the effect that has on our relationship.

Rather than school hours could you look at doing 3 or 4 full days a week? I suggest this as a) then you could get your DH to pick up (from after school club) a couple of days a week and then you could have a couple of days a week where you have school hours to get a bit of time to yourself. You might find it a better balance. It's tough when all of your time is work or kids.

tbh you've made what sounds like quite a fair assessment of your chore division (and you'd know better than any of the random people on the internet!) - basically both you and DP are working full time but separately until 7pm - the fact that he is in paid work and some of yours is unpaid childcare work is irrelevant. He physically can't do the work you are doing because he isn't there, but as soon as he does get home he helps. I think that's fair enough?

Yes you might think his job is easier, but that's just life - my officey job is probably easier than a doctor's in A and E! You might think back on when you worked FT and think it's easier than what you're doing now - but depending on what job you did and what stage, that doesn't mean that a FT job that you enjoyed when you were only dependent on yourself is directly equivalent to a more senior job with a lot of responsibilities and the weight of being the main wage earner with 2 kids. Sometimes his job might be easier than what you are doing - but also as you've said, sometimes you have lovely afternoons in the park while he could be stuck in a stressful meeting. Swings and roundabouts.

People have commented on it being his fault for not pushing back on what part time expectations are, but I think it's more of the hours - having done both unfortunately if you do 0.8 then people do expect you to pretty much do all the same work. If you go down to about 0.5 then it is easier because they usually have to get a job share or something if you're genuinely not available half the week.

If you think there is more he could do then by all means suggest it. But if you think actually you're both sharing the load as equally as you can, just differently, then starting to resent each other is not going to achieve anything positive. Just accept its hard hard work at the moment, look to the future when things might be a bit better, and see if there is anything you can do (get a cleaner, dump some of the afterschool clubs, put kids in wrap around care once or twice a week, set up online food ordering, whatever....) to reduce the load as much as possible.

This is the work pattern I have found overall easiest, having done the gamut from FT/various combinations of PT 3/4 days a week, school hours and freelance.

School hours (even tho I was primarily WFH, so no commute) was by far the hardest for my own mental health and the overall division of domestic and childcare duties in my marriage.

I think that this is just the reality of having 3 kids and working, to be honest. There are some jobs and industries that aren’t flexible-friendly, and as others have pointed out, in many cases 0.8 means doing a FT job and being paid less.

With 3 kids there’s going to be a huge amount of child related admin/crap, and someone has to do it whether it’s a parent or paid childcare. You can either sack off some of the kids’ afternoon stuff, or increase your hours and pay for childcare and more help around the house (or do it jointly at weekends). It’s very easy to feel that the child care/house bit is a complete drudge (I find it is a bit) whilst your DH has an Important Job that doesn’t involve wiping arses & snotty noses, but at the same time when I was PT, my DH was envious of all the stuff we did together, no matter how mundane.

I don’t think school hours helps- you’ll feel like a blue arsed fly cramming in a day of work and then 3+ hours of full on mummy mode before DH comes home.

Many families have parents who both work full time and they manage to find a way.

If you're working part time of course you should be picking up more of the childcare.

Life isn't fair and parenting doesn't work with a 50:50 split. You do what you can when you can.

All these years on mumsnet and I still don't know what "life admin" is meant to be.

@Snoozer11

I'm new to mumsnet and I've seen it said loads already

Not sure what it is either!

Can you get him to batch cook at weekends? Or take on other jobs that you would previously have been done in the week?

Life admin is a really simple concept. Its filling out all the school forms, making all the payments on time, noticing when a doctors appointment is needed and booking it, chasing the hospital for results, all the different utility and insurance renewals etc, remembering the birthdays, buying cards and getting them into the post on time, responding to invites, sorting passports. Those kind of things.

Everybody does it constantly whatever their work arrangements. Each little thing is small but added up it can feel overwhelming for some people. Other people are very organised and dont notice doing it at all.

my child has SEN and we have 5 big box files of filing for him - my other son has a little document wallet so some families have more admin than others.

Thanks all so much for the responses they have been so insightful, especially those who disagreed with me and offered different perspectives.

Part of me wonders (as one poster mentioned) whether life with 3 kids is just going to be super busy and exhausting whichever way you do it. Sometimes I ask wonder whether maybe im just “getting it wrong”, after all I “only” work part time and still seem to struggle, and other people make it look so easy.

Thanks to the poster who said feminism shouldn’t be a stick to beat yourself with. I know it shouldn’t but I guess I just feel deflated that for all my ideals I am still the one who has made most career sacrifices (3 long maternity leaves and part time work). Overall I am mostly pleased with the choices we’ve made but it still feels hard some days. Maybe that’s normal.

Thanks all for your thoughts

OP it would be more balanced if you worked FT as did your partner, but you've decided that you don't want your children in wraparound care so this is the set up you're left with. Just get on with it.

But help yourself - get a cleaner and anything else to give yourself a break.

The majority of marriages aren't even, women do the majority of childcare or life admin whether they're SAHM or working FT and most men in marriages benefit hugely from this labour. You can't change the patriarchy - unless you want to go it alone without a man - so just do the things that are going to make it a bit easier on you.

Being a failed feminist depends on your definition of feminism - if like so many women on MN including @MolliciousIntent it's the dreaded 'Choice Feminism', then you haven't failed as you're living the life you've chosen (see....isn't Choice feminism lovely/pointless!) .

I think it's just difficult when they're young.

As soon as DS was 10 I upped my hours and went back to the senior grade I'd dropped from - it's a hell of a lot easier than rushing out the door mid meeting at 2.45 to do the school run ( which was quite literally a run to get to the school on time).

There's lots of coulda, shoulda , woulda here, and ultimately I think there's just too much to do unless you outsource a lot of the childcare. DS hated after school so I tried to factor that into the equation.

Interesting that 0.8 didn't work for your DH. Generally it doesn't work perfectly and it is a bit rubbish, but unfortunately women are more inclined to suck it up and make it work for the sake of the DCs.

Maybe give your DH some specific tasks. But listen I only had one DC and barrel survived. If you're all still alive and vaguely smiling, then I'd leave your feminist principles for when you have more time to worry about them.

I don't know who you know who makes it look easy but I reckon they're just a good actor!

@HelpIHaveNothingToWear THIS bit made me laugh.

YABU: Shove your tiny violin up your ass and suck it up, bitch..

But I do think YANBU!

other people make it look so easy

For every person you look at who makes it seem easy, they’re looking at you and thinking the same. They’ll either have less kids, easier kids, more help, more money, and - crucially - completely different areas that they feel they’re failing at getting right.

It helps to remember that.

Op if the hours and jobs were reversed, would you still be doing the things you currently do?

I think that taking the time to make a list of all the different tasks is helpful.

The load is very different.

He is solely focused on his job and is not distracted.

You are doing multiple things at the same time.

Three children is busy.

Taking a really hard look at activities during the week helps.

Ditching any that you can, helps.

Getting that cleaner so that every week the bulk of it is done, helps.

Making a list of simple meals that can be assembled easily, helps.

Doubling up when you cook potatoes for example so the extra in the fridge can be quickly friend with eggs and beans for example, on a busy night.

Doubling up chilli's, mince dishes, currys, roasting two chickens at once, or buying in rotteserie chickens and having sandwiches for dinner with bought soup.

Take the bedding to a laundrette once a fortnight so you never have to do it again.
This was a huge game changer for a friend of mine.

Friends of mine told me they were on their feet for 15 hours solid a day, from getting up, work and the full on family load.

Utterly relentless.

Start taking short cuts to make the load a bit lighter in any way you can.

No one should be sitting down, until everyone can sit down, should be the rule.

Anything else will exacerbate resentment.

I’ve never understood the brand of feminism that suggests that equality between men and women means women leading a man’s life.

Maternity leave needn’t be an enforced career break! I mean, it obviously is in practice. But it’s also - for some women - a life experience no man will ever get to experience. It’s a man’s life+. To have a job, leave it to have this other experience with a baby at the end of it, and go back to the job - to me, that’s far more of a life than a man’s lot. Why does being a feminist mean that you must focus on the career that you lost, rather than the maternity experience you gained? Because that’s defining your life by men’s standards. NOT at all feminist!

Also, this:

it’s starting to grate on me that my husband gets the more “fun” aspects of family life (eg days out on the weekend) when I’m doing a lot of the mundane crap during the week.

I could technically increase my hours and go full time, but I don’t like the idea of my kids spending every afternoon in wrap around care

You say at the end that you don’t want wrap around care for your children, so this isn’t totally on topic, but it’s not up to your children to make you a feminist. That’s on you, with the choices you’ve made (in husband, father of your children, whatever else).

I think you’re trapped by your own definition of feminism. Feminism doesn’t mean leading a man’s life, or not doing wife work, or not bearing the brunt of household admin or child-rearing duties. To me, at least, feminism is being free to choose your outcomes, untrammelled by others’ expectations.

Perhaps the solution is to see the things you do have - all the things you’ve chosen in your life - and their value to you, rather than their value to a man’s life. If, when you do that, you see that the balance isn’t right between you (Eg that he has less stress, or he has more free time, or he does more of what he wants and less of what he doesn’t want compared to you), then you work with him to adjust that. Life is full of shit chores and admin; you’re not anti feminist for doing your fair share of them. Just make sure it’s a fair share.