To worry about my poor kids with parents like us?

[OnceMoreWithoutFeeling]

Me and my DP.... Argh. Well.

First the positives. We're both very intelligent (degree educated to PhD/masters level and published - although in Arts subjects so pinch of salt there). We have good steady jobs with room for progression, family income around £80k gross (should be more when DP finds a new job as he's been at top of his increment for years). Both work part time 4 days a week and stagger our hours so kids don't have to spend too long in childcare. Both have complimentary strengths - DP is very driven, hard working, organised. I'm (at my best) very loving, very devoted to the kids, extremely empathetic, emotionally articulate. We are financially solvent and careful, no debt but the mortgage, focussed on using our money for life-enhancing stuff e.g. travel and activities rather than expensive "stuff". So they will want for nothing essential, materially.

But mentally and emotionally we're both a bit of a mess. Both significant family trauma in adulthood which on reflection will have also stemmed from a very difficult childhood - my mum committed suicide not long after my first child was born, his stuff I can't go in to but it's one of the worst things I can think of - didn't involve him directly but destroyed his family. Both inclined to depression and anxiety (although DP would never call it depression and anxiety).

I'm very hormonally volatile since having children which can make me very difficult to live with. I also think I may have ADHD for various reasons. DP is (I think) autistic, he doesn't seem to have "normal" feelings or be able to express them. He feels disappointed by our life together I think, and I feel very very lonely.

We got together when we were both probably quite troubled young people (early twenties) and are now, about 15 years later, very poorly suited - and I feel like he's become a much better person than he was and I've become a lot worse but that's an aside. What used to keep us going was loyalty (we were friends for years before we were a couple) and sexual compatibility - but since having the kids my libido has dropped off a cliff and this has become a bone of contention.

Neither of us are sporty or science-y. Neither of us are very confident or good at networking. I look at other parents and feel like this stuff is so important. We also don't really have any wider family around, so kids don't have that network of grannies/aunties/cousins as part of their daily experience to fill in the gaps we leave.

I feel like we both have such ambition to be better people and good parents. But I'm starting to wonder, can you ever really become better than the tools you have to work with? Can you fake until you make a whole personality, a whole life? We have such gaps that mean our children have so little chance of growing up successful, healthy and happy I feel. My eldest (5) is amazing, but already I see things in her that are "like me" or " like her dad" and I feel like we're infecting her somehow. Dragging her down into our mess when all I want is for her and her sister to be raised up above it.

I so want them to be happier than we are. But how can they be if we can't show them how? I have all these ideas - i'll take them to park run, I'll somehow try and improve our relationship so they can see what a good partnership looks like, we'll all do meditation together, we'll move abroad, I'll break up with their dad so they can see you don't have to accept being unhappy - all sorts of ideas from the mundane to the desperate, but fundamentally I feel paralysed by the notion that wherever I go, there I am, and they will never not have these two slightly miserable, slightly rubbish parents.

That's sad. You can do your best and that is all you can do. It sounds like you are very much doing your best (and thinking deeply about how you can do better). It is very rare any child has a perfect upbringing, and I wonder if you're putting too much pressure on yourself.

Every day is a fresh start & every day has its own opportunities.
Don't obsess about what you don't have.
Focus on what you do have, & can do well today.
With small children, small things matter a lot.

It sounds as if you’re a good enough parent op. That really is enough. Perfection is never perfect, can be stifling and unhealthy for a child’s development.We are all messy creatures. And I totally understand the we were but aren’t so much compatible. This is very common. You’re thinking so much, overthinking.

You cannot change your dh. His journey is his own. The best thing you can do for yourself though would be to get some therapy to find you and give you some grounding. You could also consider seeking a private diagnosis on the ADHD front. Anything, which makes you feel happier and more stable in yourself will help your dc.

You’re an overthinker - me too… Neither you nor your dh are infecting your child. Really. You’re not. I’m disabled so I’ve been unable to do so many things with my dd. It is now really becoming an issue in her teens as she wants to do active holidays and is stuck with a mum, who just can’t. We live with what we have and adapt as best we can.

Sounds like there is a lot going on in your head. Counselling can be really useful to help you make a start on working out How you are feeling and what is important and what is not. If you have both suffered childhood trauma then it really can affect you as an adult. One of those ways is never feeling good enough! You don't have to be anything for your children and the best you can do is love and support them for exactly who they are. My parent was anxious and felt that they had failed. They couldn't bear to see their traits in me and tried to 'tackle them. It made it worse!

You sound very much like DH and me. Things came to a head with us about 3 years ago when I began to make plans to leave the marriage. He was devastated and immediately decided to have counselling. I had already been seeing a counsellor for several years and we had once tried together but it had been so awful that we didn’t carry on.
We have hugely turned things round and both have regular (separate) counselling. Life is not perfect and our personalities haven’t changed, but we have learned how to help each other and ourselves.
I wish I had managed this sooner, as our children are older than yours now, but those early years can be an endless stream of trouble shooting with no time for yourselves.

There's nothing wrong with striving to be a better parent but don't overwhelm yourself with ideas that are unlikely to happen.
If you're not a park run person, then don't worry about it. Just taking the kids to the park for a play at a convenient time is fine.
You sound like a loving parent so carry on showing your love and spend time with your dc that you enjoy too.

Read all the positives you have written. You’re providing a stable and loving environment for your children with lots of opportunities. You sound like a great person and parent.

I can relate to your thoughts on wishing your child hadn’t inherited this or that. I feel that way too sometimes. My DD has my anxiety. But try to focus on the fact that you can support your child.

If there are things in your own life that you want to change or want support for - start with those. Seek therapy, ask for help with your hormone volatility and ADHD - if you want to. But most of all learn to love yourself as you are.

It sounds like your being a bit harsh on yourself and DH. You sound like lovely parents, the fact that you worry about it means you are a good parent. The bad parents don’t give a F about how they are messing up their kids.

If you want your kids to be more confident / happy etc the best way is to always talk positively around them. The words you use will become their inner voice. So if you tell them how amazing, loved, that you love being their mummy etc but also watch how you talk about yourself. If you say I’m fat, silly, wish I was better they will then think that’s the norm for how to you talk to yourself.

Being verbal with emotions is another good one. So if you are in a bad mood, rather than just being grumpy and shouting. Before you get to that stage say I’m tired / not feeling well so I’m a bit grumpy right now. Mummy needs x,y,z to feel better. So then the children don’t think it’s something they have done.

Last one is when your saying I’m proud of you, ask them if they are proud of themselves. So it reduces the chances of them being a people pleaser and more self confidence.

I think you're catasrophising.

Parents only need to be good enough. As long as you're not neglecting the children, as long as they are you priority, park runs don't make their childhood perfect.

Children need love, warmth, food, affection. A stable home parents who are 'present'. You're providing all of those things and more.

Try to relax. Try to have some confidence in what you're doing. Be kinder to yourself. It sounds to me like you're doing a fab job.

I agree with this. You seem to be idealising s lot of things on your head.

By all means, you and your husband should work on your marriage but I don’t get the bit about “dragging children down with you”.

I'm sure you're great parents but if you really worry about this then speak to a good therapist who specialises in trauma, parenting work and/or neurodiversity. They can help you make sense of what's happening and help you figure out what to be worried about and what to not, and help you both process traumas, improve your communication etc etc etc. If you really are worried about your kids this is what I would do to break the cycle.

🌻

I think kids don't really care about their parents' hobbies and activities. As they get older you'll find what they're into and spend your life driving them around to stuff. Then by the time they're teenagers you'll be a source of embarrassment whatever you do. Focus on enjoying their company and listening to them. No one wants excessively high achieving parents, it sets the bar too high!

Ps all the kids whose dads are out at golf/ cycling/"networking" are not better off

It sounds like you feel as if every other family is perfect, free from trauma, free from LDs, free from emotional baggage, but that just isn't true. The older I get and the more I talk to my friends over years and years, the more I realise that we ALL carry trauma and/or emotional baggage of one type or another. Sure, some people have more than others, some are good at hiding it, and others manage to make lemonade with the lemons they were given, but no one is perfect and all parents are winging it and simply doing the best they can.

So what can you do? Get a formal diagnosis for your ADHD, if you think that would help. You might be able to access medication that helps you to manage it. You can't force your DH to get diagnosed himself, but if you suspect he's autistic, read up about it as understanding might help you better communicate, if nothing else. And if your marriage is basically over, go and see a solicitor and get familiar with the various steps of separating and divorcing. You're right that you don't have to accept being unhappy and you don't have to stay with your DH just to give your DC married parents, because the best thing for them is to have happy parents.

fundamentally I feel paralysed by the notion that wherever I go, there I am, and they will never not have these two slightly miserable, slightly rubbish parents

As for this, yes, wherever you go, you take your baggage with you, so the answer is don't try and run away from it. Many of us have tried changing job, moving town, even moving abroad, but the best thing to do is face it, acknowledge it and try your hardest to break harmful habits and not just do things because that's how you were raised. So yes, you CAN change, but you have to be brave, self aware and determined

Firstly I'm sorry to hear about your dm . Please don't think ee (everyone else) has it licked at all.they really really don't. ! ,it sounds like you are doing really well.you are well educated, and obv loving parents. No one has a perfect time as a child. Just doing our best here. Relax trips to park /swimming and so on is fine

You sound a brilliant parent.
By carrying on when thinks are tough/ you feel anxious or low, you are modelling resilience.
By recognising your DC has some (undesirable to you?) traits of yours you are identifying areas they may (or may not) need support… and if they do, having lived with these things yourself, you are ideally placed to offer it.
You sound really loving and caring, which is 90% of parenting. You lack self belief/confidence, not parenting skills!

Who wants perfect parents? My lot certainly didn't get them! You both sound lovely. Wish you were my parents.

Don't compare yourself and your marriage to others. I used to do that then years later it became apparent that those marriages and seemingly confident school parents were shams. You're doing your best. That's all that anyone can hope to do. Please don't beat yourself up. It is sometimes about learning to love yourself. Difficult after suicide. I know from personal experience too but you're not to blame. Let go of the guilt.

I agree with this. " good enough " is my mantra. You are clearly doing the best you can with the tools you have been given. Your DC have love, financial security, parents who care about them. The thing that's helped me navigate family life is keeping an open dialogue with my Dc, talking about feelings, even when it's difficult, being honest, empathic, sensitive, admitting failures and letting my DC know I trust them to make good choices.

In my experience nothing triggers your own trauma like having children, and that can often include feelings of inadequacy, worthlessness and not being good enough. It can also include emotional instability, emotional shut down, sexual difficulties and withdrawal. Parenting also brings our own experience of being parented to the fore where we see the impact our childhood had on us in a way we may not have considered before.

I’m not saying everything you’re saying is down to trauma, there may well be other stuff in the mix but I often see what you describe in people I work with who have trauma in their backgrounds (I’m a therapist who specialises in psychological trauma).

I’d echo the suggestion of therapy - look for a modality that works relationally rather than CBT type therapy, CBT can be useful but a relational therapy will help you understand how these events impact you in relationship with others and can be incredibly healing. It would particularly help your DH learn to understand his emotions better and communicate and maybe feel less lonely. A good therapist with a knowledge of trauma is what you need.

Also get yourself checked out physically - you shouldn’t need to live with no libido and if it’s hormonal there may be something that can be done there.

in teens if networks etc, we don’t have a huge network of family and friends, we do a lot with the kids and spend time supporting them socially. It’s easy to look and think everyone is a better parent than you are but you have so much to offer your kids, try to focus on what’s working and build on that rather than focussing on your perceived deficits.

You and your DH both need a personal therapist and couples counseling. I know a lot of people upthread have said that it's all fine and you're doing great, but living with volatile, miserable, anxious, repressed parents is absolutely no good for children. You've recognised the issues, now you can address them.

You sound as if you're a pretty average couple. Many of us prefer to conceal what you've chosen to reveal and much of what we see of other people's happy family life is only their public face. You would definitely benefit from some therapy though, it would help you to get things in perspective as you sound over anxious. A friend spent months every year planning the next family holiday, in a country not yet visited, culture and entertainment well balanced. She says by the time they reached their twenties, the holidays were recalled only by the availability of playtime, swimming and theme parks. "I'd have saved thousands by just taking them to the nearest Butlins every year". Good luck.

OP, no one has perfect parents. The qualities you describe as positive are immensely valuable. And your shared values as people show a strong bond between you.

I think it's inevitable that mid-way through parenting we get into a muddle and want to review how we're handling things. Sign of a good parent imo.

I'd start my making the changes to myself that are most necessary. Sort out the hormonal rage. It's hell for everyone. You can get short term does of some anti-depressants which you just take at certain times of the month to take the edge off the hormones. I strongly recommend you do this.

You seem very clear on what's missing. For networking skills, maybe sign DC up for theatre/acting classes. They help with socialising, especially if they have autistic traits. But as I get older, the more I think, we really don't need to be the same as everyone else. It's OK not to be closely networked and BBQing with friends and neighbours every weekend. If that's how you are, maybe that's how DC are too and it's very important to show them that;s fine. It's a perfectly okay way to live.

With the science and sporty stuff, just do it. You're bright and kind. Go to science museums and workshops and Royal Society talks. Sign them up for science summer schools (if they show interest. Arty/ADD/Autistic DH and I did this with our two and one is now an Oxbridge science student.

Definitely go for park runs or family bootcamps every weekend. Or at very least swimming and cycling (though these are less sociable.) I wish I'd been more proactive about getting our non sporty DC into sport.