To worry about my poor kids with parents like us?

[OnceMoreWithoutFeeling]

Me and my DP.... Argh. Well.

First the positives. We're both very intelligent (degree educated to PhD/masters level and published - although in Arts subjects so pinch of salt there). We have good steady jobs with room for progression, family income around £80k gross (should be more when DP finds a new job as he's been at top of his increment for years). Both work part time 4 days a week and stagger our hours so kids don't have to spend too long in childcare. Both have complimentary strengths - DP is very driven, hard working, organised. I'm (at my best) very loving, very devoted to the kids, extremely empathetic, emotionally articulate. We are financially solvent and careful, no debt but the mortgage, focussed on using our money for life-enhancing stuff e.g. travel and activities rather than expensive "stuff". So they will want for nothing essential, materially.

But mentally and emotionally we're both a bit of a mess. Both significant family trauma in adulthood which on reflection will have also stemmed from a very difficult childhood - my mum committed suicide not long after my first child was born, his stuff I can't go in to but it's one of the worst things I can think of - didn't involve him directly but destroyed his family. Both inclined to depression and anxiety (although DP would never call it depression and anxiety).

I'm very hormonally volatile since having children which can make me very difficult to live with. I also think I may have ADHD for various reasons. DP is (I think) autistic, he doesn't seem to have "normal" feelings or be able to express them. He feels disappointed by our life together I think, and I feel very very lonely.

We got together when we were both probably quite troubled young people (early twenties) and are now, about 15 years later, very poorly suited - and I feel like he's become a much better person than he was and I've become a lot worse but that's an aside. What used to keep us going was loyalty (we were friends for years before we were a couple) and sexual compatibility - but since having the kids my libido has dropped off a cliff and this has become a bone of contention.

Neither of us are sporty or science-y. Neither of us are very confident or good at networking. I look at other parents and feel like this stuff is so important. We also don't really have any wider family around, so kids don't have that network of grannies/aunties/cousins as part of their daily experience to fill in the gaps we leave.

I feel like we both have such ambition to be better people and good parents. But I'm starting to wonder, can you ever really become better than the tools you have to work with? Can you fake until you make a whole personality, a whole life? We have such gaps that mean our children have so little chance of growing up successful, healthy and happy I feel. My eldest (5) is amazing, but already I see things in her that are "like me" or " like her dad" and I feel like we're infecting her somehow. Dragging her down into our mess when all I want is for her and her sister to be raised up above it.

I so want them to be happier than we are. But how can they be if we can't show them how? I have all these ideas - i'll take them to park run, I'll somehow try and improve our relationship so they can see what a good partnership looks like, we'll all do meditation together, we'll move abroad, I'll break up with their dad so they can see you don't have to accept being unhappy - all sorts of ideas from the mundane to the desperate, but fundamentally I feel paralysed by the notion that wherever I go, there I am, and they will never not have these two slightly miserable, slightly rubbish parents.

This be the verse by Philip Larkin has it right.

You've identified the weak spots you just have to work out how to cover them. Work to your strengths and support each other, teamwork makes it easier.

Dh and I are not sporty so we ensured our dc tried out different sports as often as possible and encouraged them to stick with their favourites. We allowed them to stop going after a high note rather than a low. My dc are all adults (or nearly), and all are active. I also found very positive role models in the clubs for them as well as people they can talk to who are now family friends. These can also help to fill the gaps.

You will be fine.

You sound like a wonderful caring mum, one who loves her children enough to reflect on her parentinng. But you also sound anxious and sad, it does leak out of your post to me. But no wonder, you have had so much to deal with and all at once - I do think some kind of counselling or possibly therapy to help you process everything and importantly learn to love and respect yourself more easily.

Really don't worry about the park runs etc. Some of oir best family times have just been watching films together at home, but also just random things like a good playground at a motorway services.

Re family, ours was fairly small and dispersed, bit my kids found their close frindships and 'aunties and unclea' through playgroup and schools are, and became close to friends' families too. And as ao often happens, i have befriended the parents through the kids, and still socialise with them now the kids have left - and when the kids come home we all still enjoy seeing their childhood 'friend families'.
But mainly, please seek some support for yourself. If it is helpful to you, perhaps then you can gently suggest to your husband that he deserves similar.

Best of luck to you. You sound absolutely lovely and I have no doubt at all your kids know they are loved.

To echo PP, you sound like a thoughtful, reflective and loving mother and like you're in a pattern of putting yourself and your DP down.
Have you had treatment for the trauma you've been through and the anxiety and depression you mention? I've read about EMDR being very effective for trauma. I feel a bit like a saleswoman for this as I often recommend it, but as you've mentioned emotional volatility, DBT is based on emotional regulation and distress tolerance, which helps with extreme moods and also general coping.

Nobody has perfect parents and if you’re this thoughtful about your parenting I will bet that you’re doing a good enough job. Good enough is what to aim for. You’ll be fine. The kids will be fine.

Honestly think you both sound like you’ve built a happy stable life yourselves and your children, despite what you’ve been through.

I don't think it has to be like that. I have stayed in an unhealthy relationship for far too long, with some of the issues you have with your partner, except mine has been abusive (mainly not in front of the children).

Anyway, I'm like you and have been very caring with the children and one of them is in a very healthy and happy relationship and the other has tons of friends and a great life.

I'm the main one that's suffered from it, and that's down to me and only realising how unhealthy the dynamic was after years of individual counselling. For that reason, it's worth trying to improve the relationship or consider your options. I think it's much better for children to have two happy parents even if they don't live together.

You sound exhausted. I had awful parents and was desparate not to repeat my experience. I highly recommend finding a good therapist. Get yourself in a happy place and everything else will seem less overwhelming. You can't fix it all at once but the fact you recognise that there may be a problem is half the battle won. Please don't think taking a 5 year old to Parkrun will fix anything. Every week I see little kids in tears being dragged round by frustrated parents. Highly recommend you give it a go on your own though! Likewise, meditating as a family is a crazy idea, but you can do this yourself. Why do you want to do everything together? It is OK for you to take time for yourself. I have one very sporty kid and one not so much. We used to go geocaching when they were little as we could get them to walk miles. Your kids are individuals not clones of you or their dad so stop projecting on to them.

OP, you sound like lovely parents but also as if you would greatly benefit from some therapy. I found your description of you and your DH “infecting” DD really heart-breaking. She will inherit traits from you and your husband and that’s absolutely fine- you sound like kind and very thoughtful people and these are great traits to inherit- and she’ll also be her own person as well.

There isn’t only one way to be a good enough parent and it sounds as if you’re judging yourself against a standard that just isn’t you. You don’t have to be sporty or good at networking to be a good parent, or extroverted or super-confident. I do think that modelling self-acceptance is a good thing though, and maybe some support with that would be useful for you all.

For your own sake and for your DD’s I would encourage you to look into therapy- not to change yourself into that sporty, super-confident, networky parent (who sounds much less interesting than you, to be honest) but to help you develop more self-acceptance and self-worth. Lots of love to you. None of us is perfect. If you can let your children see that it’s ok to be imperfect, that we all struggle sometimes and can support and find connection with one another in this, you will be doing a wonderful job.

Op, personally I think kids aren't interested in us really. They just want us to be interested in them. not loads of hobbies/park run etc, just listening to their thoughts and feelings. Spending one on one time with them, talking to them. You really don't need much more than that I don't think

PS don’t take them to park run if that’s not your thing. Find something you actually enjoy. Be who you are!

I emphasise, and I have similar thoughts myself, and in a not too dissimilar position.

It sounds like you have these thoughts a lot though, so I agree councilling might be a good idea (especially regarding your mum).

I do think you are being too hard on yourself, and I would hope councilling would help with a lot of that.

You could also flip it on its head - many families will have the opposite - none od the trauma you and your Dh have experienced, but no money, no education, no job security / progression, the inability to articulately express themselves to their children etc.

Some families are incredibly fortunate and seem to have the best of both worlds, but I would say that a) they are rare, b) things aren't always as they appear from the outside and c) if they do have it all, they are incredibly lucky.

Please do try and get some help. It sounds like you are a great mum XxX

OP, part of parenting is guilt IMO, unfortunately.

You and your partner are trying your best.

I think some individual support in the form of therapy would be a well spent luxury so that you both have a space to feel heard.

You have both been through so much, support would be invaluable.

I think supporting your children in trying some age appropriate sports/activities is great and being interested in their daily chat (even though it can be tiring) is a very good thing to do.

Asking them every day to tell them the 2 best things that happened today can be a lovely opener for a chat.

I think you sound very hard on yourself and that is not good.

I cannot imagine the grief of your mothers suicide and would think a chat with your GP is in order.

I am not surprised you have a bit of depression, hard to imagine you wouldn't.

Reach out for support, medicinal if necessary.

You need to stop with the self hatred OP. That's the only poisonous thing here.
Nothing wrong with being arty. Me and DH both are and have made successful careers out of it. Our kids grew up in an unconventional family with successive challenges and it seems to have given them huge breadth and experience compared to some of their peers. This is paying dividends now as both seem highly valued in their fields, one of which is music and the other very non arty indeed.
While we were in the heat of child rearing I worried terribly I was getting it all wrong. What a waste of time. Try and enjoy the ride!

Like others have said every day is a new day where you can try your best. Having said that I don't think you are doing as badly as you are. I have ADHD and I get feeling totally overwhelmed with barely getting the basic minimum done.

Maybe prioritise and stop feeling bad about things that are a nice extra but not a must. So e.g. kids need a safe and loving home environment. They don't need park run.

Have you heard about this notion of 'reparenting' yourself OP? it can be useful after childhood trauma. I know it can be very very hard to do at first because it doesn't come naturally- but try to imagine yourself being warmly hugged by a loving mother who says very kind things to you, validating your feelings, telling you all will be okay etc. The more you do this to yourself when you feel anxious or overwhelmed, the more you will also be able to be that kind of mother to your own children. Counselling can help with this if you find it difficult. I think it can really feel like hard work if you're normally very hard on yourself but it is so worth it in terms of breaking cycles and helping your own children have a more positive self-image.

Thank you all so much for the replies. I've read them all and taken them in, and I know the self talk and how I talk to them is so important. That's one of the things I worry about, we can be a very negative household! But I will try to do better.

I've tried to get my hormonal stuff looked at before to no avail - had a blood test and told levels are normal, shrug, go away.

I've had lots of counselling in the wake of my mum's death. Really helped me process the guilt around that but didn't get very far with the mess of the rest of me! Might be worth re- referring myself through the work scheme.

Also take on board what people say about being good enough and that the perfect parents have their own issues and trauma. It's easy to be down on us because I know what we're really like inside. I get angry with myself too because I know there are people who have been through and risen up from far worse and they have put it behind them and done better. I wish I could do the same.

But I'm very grateful for the kind messages and the advice ❤️

As long as you can make your children feel safe & loved, they’ll be okay OP, honestly.

You don’t have to be everything to your children.
love and boundaries is what they need. They have this from you.
please don’t over think it - every one has weaknesses - you would be human if you didn’t .
people who consider themselves ‘perfect’ make unsuitable parents .

But I'm starting to wonder, can you ever really become better than the tools you have to work with

Yes, absolutely. My core belief is that we evolve throughout life. We are not 'fixed'.

You can't address anything unless you are aware of your issues, and you are very aware.

And yes I am an overthinker. It's the bane of my life!!!

It probably explains why my older sister, so had just as hard a childhood or even far worse than mine, is successful, healthy, well balanced, in a relationship with a laid back supportive husband. She took charge of herself and didn't dwell and just hot on with things. Whereas I've let everything get to me so much.

You’re focussing on all the externals, parkrun, moving, sports etc. what actually matters to your kids is the internal. So you need to sort that out first. You can only work on yourself but I do believe that you can start to feel better if you work on it. Either through reading books or counselling

I think you need to accept yourself first. Don't put pressure on yourself to be someone you aren't, but just focus on the things you enjoy and go from there. And try out things... try to find new things you enjoy and would like to do as a family. It doesn't have to be park run.

Kids are pretty basic creatures a lot of the time and I find parenting a bit like looking after an extremely hyperactive dog (maybe it's just my DC 😅). I try to parent positively most of the time, and give praise for good behaviour but there are still times when I seem to be constantly moaning at my DC. Aside from that, a healthy diet (but it doesn't have to be varied - my DC will eat around 10 things at the moment), plenty of exercise (for them, not me, so clubs and swimming while I take a book and watch are fine) and reading together for at least 10 minutes before bed are all that I aim for. I've suffered from depression in the past and am an introvert by nature, so I do find sometimes you have to fake it when they ask you to play board games or role play for the 100th time that day. And sometimes I do just hand the tablet over or put the TV on, and I think that's fine too.

And it doesn't matter who you are or what your house is like or any of that, if you can be friendly, relaxed and welcoming to your DC's friends and let them have regular playdates and meet-ups with friends, they will often create their own social networks without all that much help from you.

Honestly you sound like a loving and caring mum who works as a team with your DH.

Don’t exhaust yourself overthinking or trying to make life a version of perfect or worrying about things out of your sphere of influence.

Supporting your children and cheering them on as they grow into their own lives using your life experience (not necessary the details of it but the resilience!) and giving them a loving foundation from which to grow is more than perfect.

I really support what others have said. Please get some therapy, NOT because there is anything wrong with how you manage and especially how you parent, but so that you can truly believe that. There is important research that says you only need to get it right 51% of the time.

I also do wonder if you might be a bit low right now? I would hope that therapy might help with that too.

What I really wanted to say is that, after my children were too old to access it, I trained as a Childline volunteer. The skills I learnt have been brilliant and I know I’d have been a very different, more aware, more empathic parent had I had those skills when the children were younger. (I also know it’s a lot easier to be aware empathic etc when it’s NOT your own child!) so I think it’s always possible to improve your skills, whatever your background (and that rather hopeless resignation that you express might also be depression).

You sound lovely and committed and you want things to change: I wish you the best of luck.