Does a score of 80/90ish on SATs mean they'll not get pass marks at GCSE?

[beetuljoos]

Worried about DC's KS2 SATs this week. Teacher said they'll scrape an 80, which I think is nonsense as they're getting more than 3 on each paper but I daren't hope for more than 90. I'm really concerned about DC's future. I'm a teacher and looking at my Y10/Y11 data even my grade 4 pupils seem to have achieved 102ish. AIBU to worry about this? Anyone had their DC get a low SAT score and get good GCSE grades? Good enough for an apprenticeship or something anyway, I'm not too fussed for Grade 9s, just want DC to have opportunities.

@wonderstuff I'm a Secondary school teacher and know what one does. I don't interact with them but I'm aware of their role in school and across trusts/LAs.

OP have you definitely got the correct scaled score?

@AReallyUsefulEngine I sat them in year 6 2005. I don’t know if the data changed. I’m aware I’m not a common case, however, my primary school teachers were shocking. Going into secondary, things began making sense. I worked very very hard and lived a very sheltered life. My point is, it’s not a death sentence. I wouldn’t think the worst. Some people do achieve.

DH is a teacher and had a child last year predicted a 2. He got a 4. He was in their special PRU alternative and was “a dick” in DH’s words, but had it in him and consistently performed in his papers.

Just checked the scaled score conversion (didn't know these were available so thanks) and he seems to be about 95 so not as low as I thought. I don't understand why his teacher is saying 80, unless she just doesn't know him.

I appreciate I've clearly been a terrible parent (and apparently a shit teacher too) but I really have been trying to do whatever I could with the information I had. Clearly too much trust in what the school says.

You haven’t been a terrible parent at all. You’ve clearly been working with him and looking out for him. You’ve had some very nasty responses.

OP you haven't been a terrible parent at all. I'm a secondary teacher too and we have got several kids EHCPs in year 7 so definitely arrange a meeting with the Senco at the school he is going to when you can.

Your ds will eventually be fine because he has you behind him and that makes all the difference.

primary put my dyslexic ds off reading - in fairness he did learn to read but this was only after I forced them to get him formally assessed. He was probably getting similar sat scores.
Secondary was much better for him although far from perfect. He passed his gcse bar english.

he’s retaking again - but he has really matured in the last couple of years and seems able to cope with english and dyslexia much better. So keep the faith . He will get their but you probably do have a few more years of disheartening parents evening.

frustratingly younger dc is top of the year for all his subjects- secondary throw support at hom
as he is clearly going to be scoring 8& 9s . I’m pleased for him but I’m gritting my teeth at the memory of all fighting for support I had to do for older ds.

I’m surprised by your own school, a whole department who don’t know about days ot Ed Psychs and writing off those with targeted 3s… sounds like a shite school

I see, since he has been consistently low, I think he will likely need extra support (I.e. tutors) in order to do well at GCSE's.
I would get some now, work with him before secondary in English and Maths. Unless he goes daily which would be extremely expensive, I doubt he'll be caught up or close but he will be closer. Then once he is caught up, stop the tutors and again at GCSE level if needed

I agree you have trusted the primary school too much.

In my experience with two children who turned out to have learning difficulties, our primary school tended to be optimistic and upbeat about progress. They don't like telling parents kids are struggling.
They also don't seem t take home background into account, so my DD was struggling with literacy but 'was not as bad as some others' so not an issue. But I was doing everything you'd want at home such as reading daily, phonics, working on spellings. She should have been doing far better than she was.

If a child has scored <100 even though they had good teaching and support at home, that would be indicative they might well struggle with GCSEs, but it's not set in stone. I'd strongly consider private tutoring for maths and/or English from y7 as both of them are a marathon not a sprint. It is an absolute pain retaking maths & English at college.

There are various Facebook groups you can join such as Educational Equality and Operation Diversity that can provide support.

It is not unusual for LAs and schools (usually because they have mislead themselves) to mislead parents about what support is available so it good to arm yourself with knowledge.

I have 3 primary aged DC. Eldest didn’t sit SATS because of covid but he’s top set for everything at secondary. Middle one struggles academically so we’ve had to work so hard with her revising over the past few weeks and she’s gone to extra clubs at school too. I’m praying she does better but she got 85 on the maths and comprehension practise tests back in January.

She struggles with confidence and has a tendency to panic in tests and guess answers. No SEN that we’re aware of. I hope the effort we’ve all put in pays off this week, she’s a bright girl but has a major lack of self belief and the lockdowns definitely didn’t help.

I have heard of the correlation between low SATS and GCSE’s but I’m hoping this isn’t the case for my DD. There’s such a huge difference between a 10 year old and 15 year old!

You are going to have to get to grips with this. Children’s SEN aren't picked up and provided for routinely. Some areas don't assess or diagnose dyslexia on the NHS anymore. Schools wrongly believe they won't get EHCPs or tell parents that they won't get one. It really does rely on desperate and determined parents a lot of the time.
So find out how to get your ds's needs assessed and what support he requires. Then go out and get it. Don't wait for anyone else to do it.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate
This is so very true. I’m currently saving up the £1400 for my youngest to be assessed privately for autism. I’m done faffing about with the school and the GP. I was told it would be done, but it’s been years waiting and they are 11 now and it’s getting critical.

Could someone please explain how the SATS scoring works?

Good luck @Discovereads. You shouldn't be in this position. We did get an NHS diagnosis for autism but actually getting to see a consultant was hard work. As was the EHCP and school place. Very much worth it though.

@incywincyspider1 I'm no expert but my understanding is they take the actual scores and find an average which becomes 100 and then scale the results either side between 80 and 120. So 120 is full marks and 80 is no marks. It's a comparison to average.

@incywincyspider1 the kids all sit the exam, once they have someone decides what mark represents ‘expectation’ that mark is ‘standardised’ as 100. Anything below 100 is below expectations. Which is not how any other standardised test is calculated.

Anyone scoring 80 in their SATs is unlikely to miraculously achieve ‘expected’ without support. I am really surprised that this hasn’t been flagged up previously, especially if you are a teacher. SAT scores are used in conjunction with CAT scores early in Y7 to assess children’s ability and identify those needing support.

If you can afford it, get a full Ed Psych report and engage an experienced SEND tutor to help improve attainment before starting Y7 and continue support if this is lacking at the new secondary. Many schools make the right noises, but in practice there is little money available for extra support. These pupils may struggle to achieve a 4 in English and maths, although they may do better in other subjects.

Bear in mind that if they are still stuck in the bottom sets in maths at school in Y9, they will do Foundation (up to grade 5) rather than Higher (up to grade 9). This means that they will be unlikely to be able to do anything involving science, technology and computing post-16.

As mentioned previously, anything under 100 is classed as ‘standard not achieved’. They will need catch-up support in Y7. 100 is ‘expected’. These ‘average’ pupils are the ones that can improve dramatically with maturity and the right attitude. Informally, some primary schools use 112 and above to denote ‘working at greater depth’. These pupils are likely to achieve 7-9s at GCSEs.

Good luck!

100 isn't average - average across the country is usually about 104. 100 and above is National Standard. If they benchmarked 100 as average, they would have almost half of Y6 pupils nationally not reaching NS, which they won't allow to happen.

SATS are still used to predict GCSE and kids also have the added "joy" of being constantly marked against that (so a sense of crushing failure for all those with puffed up sats results for 5 years after those Sat's cramming tutorials because the secondary schools have zero interest in a childs self esteem) expectation throughout secondary school. Whilst there's a correlation in statistics individuals cannot set any store in that .

They're tests OF the school. Surely you're aware of that?

Not quite sure what the purpose of this is apart from to somehow make you feel superior. My school has a lot of flaws and I don't agree with much of what SLT do, but it's not particularly relevant to the question asked.

And no, it's not hypocritical as I'd do anything I could, as a class teacher, to get target 3s up to higher grades, I'm just saying it isn't someone the leadership team prioritise here.

Congratulations that you know what an Ed Psych is. I didn't. I don't really know what to tell you to be honest but these responses feel somewhat like a personal attack.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. My son needed extra help to scrape a 3 - can't remember the scores as it was years ago. They didn't think he would get it. Anyway around year 9 he started the fly, got great GCSE results, AAB at A level and is at uni now studying a pretty hard subject. Kids develop at different stages and for some, things just "click" later.

Update- He passed them all (104/103/105), except writing which was teacher assessed. His teacher obviously massively underestimated him.

Oh brilliant!

That’s brilliant! You must be really proud:)

Fabulous. Well done to your son!