Does a score of 80/90ish on SATs mean they'll not get pass marks at GCSE?

[beetuljoos]

Worried about DC's KS2 SATs this week. Teacher said they'll scrape an 80, which I think is nonsense as they're getting more than 3 on each paper but I daren't hope for more than 90. I'm really concerned about DC's future. I'm a teacher and looking at my Y10/Y11 data even my grade 4 pupils seem to have achieved 102ish. AIBU to worry about this? Anyone had their DC get a low SAT score and get good GCSE grades? Good enough for an apprenticeship or something anyway, I'm not too fussed for Grade 9s, just want DC to have opportunities.

There's no need for sarcasm. I obviously will be nothing but supportive of them. I can't help being personally worried about my child's future. I have no one IRL who I can discuss it with.

SATs are nonsense at the individual level. If you believe your children have the academic ability that may not be adequately reflected at SAT level, you put the work in yourself, you get them tutors, you do what needs to be done. My DD did not sit her SATs for a myriad of reasons including her SEN, but she cruised through her GCSEs and went onto A-Levels.

I am a yr6 teacher.
Yes, scraping 80 is very low and getting a couple of marks could even be down to the multiple choice questions.
Only the poorest in my class achieve a score of 80 and usually struggle academically through secondary school. Of course, many of these pupils have skills in areas other than those tested by Sats but it is true that those who do not achieve expected standard in reading and maths do not do as well academically in secondary. It depends on the circumstances, though. OP, is you child having some access arrangements put in place? Extra time, a reader, a prompt or anything?

For those asking how the test score is translated to the scaled score, it changes every year but each raw score is standardised to a scaled score. Previous years' conversion tables are available online if you want an idea. Of course, we don't know yet how covid will affect what the governemnt decide is a pass mark yet.

@User65412

what do you mean the poorest?

Surely you work in a department at school, how have you got no one IRL to talk to this about?

To be clear, I've been doing plenty of practice papers with them and, whilst I don't think they'll get a high mark, they get around 30-40% correct (except spelling, which is a fat 0), so I feel 80 was rather unfair from their teacher. But it is what she said. I don't really get how it works except that 120 is almost 100% and 80 is maybe 3 correct answers, so I can't work out what 30% would be on a scaled score.

My DS was targeted 3 in English based subjects and 4 in Maths based. He had lots of interventions and support because I pushed hard for it. You’ll need to really advocate for your child to get support.
Ask for (or pay for) an Ed psych report so you know where your child needs the extra help.

A secondary where none of my work friends have the foggiest notion about SATs.

My ds1 scored 3s on his sats. (This was a few years ago...)

He got 9 x gcses grades 5-8 and 3 a levels at grades AAA. He is now at an RG University.

I think your dd has much in her favour with a switched on, pro active parent.

5 years is a long time. Secondary schools are (ime) much better with send than primary.

Don't panic just yet :)

I'd be concerned, and I'd be looking at getting an EHCP. I'd question why they are entering her into the SAT papers if they aren't confident she'll get at least the lowest score.

However, I'm a secondary teacher, SEN specialist in a large mainstream school, our current year 7, when we tested reading in September, more than 10% of them got significantly below average scores - we are in a very middle class area and get excellent GCSE results, we normally get about 10 students with low scores and this academic year it was 36. We put intervention in place and now we only have 4 students with significant issues, which is where we normally are by summer term. When students have significant disruption, some of them really struggle, but when they are feeling secure, most of them make really good progress with the right intervention.

I would be wanting to know if this is a specific difficulty or a global delay - if it is specific then with the right intervention they may well go on to really well - I've seen several children get fantastic results at GCSE despite arriving at secondary with very low starting points. Got one in year 10 at the moment who couldn't read at all on arrival in year 7, now predicted 4-6 in 8 GCSEs. Had a student a few years ago go from predicted 2 to 7 in GCSE Eng Lit when we put a reader and scribe in place for her.

If it is global, and they are finding all learning difficult, then they need the right support in secondary school. We have very few children who aren't able to access GCSE at all and they can sometimes become quite isolated at KS4, not always, but sometimes an alternative placement is better.

And it is definitely possible to go on to have a good life without any grade 4 GCSE's! I've seen kids go on to some really lovely apprentice placements and thrive outside of school.

Thank you, this is really reassuring :)

If dyslexia is issue the I recommend apples and pears.

My son is severely dyslexic and this programme really helped him.

Not wanting to be too outing with it but I've pushed for an ECHP a few times and keep getting conflicting info and just a lack of response entirely (have to request from local authority here) or school would block it and say not necessary etc etc. And when they said it wasn't necessary I kind of trusted the school more than I perhaps should have in hindsight. SAT scores were only recently discussed.

I don't know what this educational psych thing is but I'll look in to it for secondary.

So only high achieving children will get further pushed in their GCSE's than someone who is predicted lower? Lovely

I wouldn't worry, just use the low score as a starting point and something to work up from. My dc both only just passed their sats maths, skin of their teeth so I was worried. My eldest now has a mocks grade 7, which is amazing and my second is top set maths in Yr 9. You know how it works, good attendance, engagement in lessons using online resources to help homework and it can be pushed up. A little extra tuition doesn't hurt either, mine had a few sessions to help them through sats maths. Don't forget that your child has had 2 years of haphazard, interrupted learning.

what do you mean the poorest?

I think the poster meant the poorest performers, in the context of the post.

Disappointing that your school aren't targetting those OTF 3 though - we try really hard to get to 4 if we possibly can because no one wants to be retaking Maths and English post-16.

I'm quite a data person at school (I do exam accesss assessment so have good understanding of psychometric testing) I encourage everyone to look at SAT alongside CAT, reading scores and baseline data - one test on it's own tells you very little.

@OnceuponaRainbow18 I'm not here for an argument. It's a term commonly used in education to describe low achievement. Not a reflection of the whole child. For what it's worth, I too think sats are bs and will telling my class tomorrow how proud I am of all the amazing things everyone of them has done.
OP, whatever practice paper you have done, the scaled score conversion will be available online so that will give you a better idea. But yes, getting 40% doesn't match up with a scaled score or 80 - more like 90 - 95 depending on the paper.

We paid for one. Cost £500.
Told me what I already knew but helped in that it was clear the school were not going to help him even though he was in the <3% for reading and writing!
If your kid isn't biting chunks out of other kids or lobbing chairs the primary school won't be interested.
As I said, apples and pears is the best resource we found.

From an educational pov you have:
LPA - low prior attainers (like my ds1)
MPA - middle prior attainers
HPA - high prior attainers
Based on y2 and y6 sats.

I remember I did terrible on my year 9 sats. My gcses were all c,b, and an a. Not 'outstanding' but pretty good considering I did no revision and was not very sober for one of them. A friend who got awful marks on her ks2 sats got through the 11+ into grammar school. A lot will happen between now and gcses. The sats will give you an idea of any areas yoyr dc isn't strong at and you can help them work on it.

You can trigger an EHCP assessment from county - I wouldn't recommend it without talking to the school as they have to provide a lot of the data, but you can do that independent of them. Ed Psych time is very limited in most areas - my school of 1500 students has 5.5 hours next term - so we really can only have limited conversations about 3/4 students. I would still push for it though, other counties have better provision and with such low SAT I imagine your child would be high up the list. I would get in touch with the SENCO of the secondary your child is going to now and start planning transition. If you do try again for an EHCP it probably wouldn't be completed until secondary and the secondary will want to get as much evidence as they can from the primary school.

Apply for an EHCNA yourself. IPSEA have a model letter you can use. If the LA agree to assess an EP assessment will be part of the needs assessment. Some schools and LAs do tell parents their DC don’t need or won’t get an EHCP, but the parents go on to successfully apply themselves. Appeal if the LA do refuse to assess, the vast majority of refusal to assess appeals are upheld.

My ds was pretty much wrote off at primary school. He’s currently doing a History and politics degree. At Secondary school he just found himself and the teaching suited him better.

Snap! :)