To wonder why so many people are hypocrites when it comes to housing?

[WestminsterCrabby]

Got into quite a heated row discussion last night with some relatives. 🍷

They are Fuming (capital F intended) about all the new housing estates popping up in their leafy village. Apparently its ruined the views, ruined their dog walks yaddah yaddah.

These are couples in their late 50s early 60s whose children are long gone but still live in their large 4 bed detached homes. When I pointed out that perhaps so many new homes wouldnt need to be built (or smaller ones that took up less space) if people only took up the amount of space they needed rather than felt entitled to, they thought I was being very very unreasonable. I disagree!

I appreciate that people living in houses bigger than there needs is not the cause of the housing shortage HOWEVER surely you cant complain about other people needing to be housed while you yourself have 2 bedrooms per person?!?

Drives me mad and it's not the first time I've had conversations like this with people in a similar circumstances.

It makes me sad to see the countryside being converted over as well but people have got to live somewhere.

Aibu here?

Good to see Mumsnet’s rampant ageism is out in force by Post 3

@lameasahorse Not sure why you picked on me, did you read my post? I’m not lecturing anyone. I think what most people on this thread can agree on is that housing stock in this country is not matching need. (Which also links to wider discussions about property being snapped up by landlords, second home owners, lack of social housing, locals being out priced etc). This does require development though and there will always be a degree of nimbyism to any proposed development.

There are lots of new retirement developments going on near us (semi rural town) but as PP have outlined, these do have their issues. The people I know who live in them are active retired people and feel it has been a positive move for them. So perhaps my view is skewed.

Locally I am horrified at a building scheme that is building around 400 new homes on what was fields and walks. Its just awful but I know people need housing, so I can't argue with it. I am just sad that all that green space is now gone.

I wouldn't vote for no new housing but I do leave it to the full on NIMBYs to do it for me.

I disagree. Not that we live in a large house, but if you can afford it, why not.
The real problem, as pp said infrastructure of schools and GP surgery isn't installed.

I think there is a big difference between building on wasteland and building on large areas of farmland. Locally we are losing lots of fields that can't be replaced and we do need to grow food as well as build houses.

The problem is the infrastructure.

No point In building 500 new homes. They need schools, GP's and health care.

But none of that is built at the same time, so existing services get stretched further.

Why bungalows though?
When older people downsize, they have to think about becoming elderly and the lack of mobility that comes with. It’s makes no sense to downsize into a property with stairs, so that means a bungalow or ground floor flat. Otherwise they are just downsizing into a property that will only be suitable for them for a short time.

I live in a house that will be too big for my husband and I when the children leave home. To move house, I have calculated that I will likely have to pay about £100k in stamp duty (plus moving costs and legal fees). What's the conclusion? I'll stay put in my too big house. If the government want people to downsize then they need to stop placing a huge tax on moving. Your relatives are not unreasonable for not wanting to pay that tax.

As for building in villages - i'm all for that. My (and everyone else's) children will need to live somewhere: we need far more houses built in this country.

I think you are conflating two different issues - on one YABU and the other YANBU.

wow YABU! So what if they have a house with 'too many rooms'. Theyvworked for it, so they can do what they want with it. None of your business

You're both being unreasonable

Housing needs to be built or empty housing/offices repurposed if possible

But theres nothing wrong with people having bigger homes than they 'need'

Equally I do have some sympathy for the complaint about lack of infrastructure when new housing is built, I dont have a problem with the extra housing but with the lack of new schools and GP surgeries and public transport being supplied

Ultimately though the biggest gap in this country in terms of housing is social housing,

Meh, I’ll live in whatever house I like. I’ve paid for it. My parents would like to downsize (3 bed semi with loft conversion and large garden) but smaller properties, especially bungalows, are either the same price or more expensive. As soon as a bungalow goes for sale here it’s into a bidding war.

Quite often the smaller properties just aren’t available. I’d like to move to a bungalow in a few years but can’t see it happening. Wouldn’t mind a flat but a lot don’t let you have pets so a house that’s ‘too big’ it is.

I don’t know if you’re being unreasonable or not, yes people have to live somewhere but where I live, there are huge blocks of flats going up around the town centre, then further out from the centre all green areas are being proposed to be built on. There are huge problems with traffic (been a problem for over 20 years since I’ve lived here), there aren’t enough schools, doctors surgeries etc. During previous building of new estates, there was supposed to be a new school and Gp centre, but that didn’t happen. So here, it’s not surprising that everyone wants the developing to stop now and try and keep some of the green areas green.
I feel like all the villages and towns now join up and there’s no community feel.

NIMBYism is a huge political problem in the UK, especially for big infrastructure projects. Any government I’d damned if it does/damned if it doesn’t.

I appreciate that people living in houses bigger than there needs is not the cause of the housing shortage

YABU - this plainly is a cause of the housing shortage!

I fully agree about poor public transport and lack of pedestrian &/or cycle paths in new build areas. So annoying.

Locally, We get strident moaning about "no new homes/roads if no new infrastructure"

The local schools are under-subscribed

3 new doctor's surgeries could be built: but no doctors can be magicked up to staff them, anyway (ditto dentists)

Everyone complains about lack of local jobs: more residents would mean more local economic activity -> more local jobs

Everyone moans about lack of local social care staff: you mean the young people who can't afford to live here?

Our high street is moribund anyway, and much of it has been converted to flats

There are an estimated 80,295 homes in London that are vacant. Probably because they are owned as secure capital investments, rather than for living in.
This is why we are building over our green fields! The more London properties are owned as investments, the more Londoners are pushed out to live in suburbs and satellite towns, which in turn pushes other people to live further out.

(I can't paste in the link to my source, how do you do that now. Anyway source is City AM.)

“I just don’t understand why so many houses are being built”

I don’t what country you’re living in, but in the uk there sure as hell aren’t - not even close to meeting demand. But hey, I’m sure it’s all the immigrants’ fault.

Thebellagio, I totally agree with your point about houses being built with renewables incorporated - there shouldn't have been a house or business premises built in the UK in the last 10 years without solar panels and/or heat pumps.

That's true of any political decision. It becomes good politics when more people will damn you for not doing it than vice versa. Demographics and the nature of the housing market are moving against the NIMBYs.

LauraNicolaides, but that shortage could equally be caused by families with one or two children living in 4/5/6 bedroomed houses - it's not all about older people downsizing. Most of the retirees I know, those with adult children, live in 3 bedroomed houses, not mansions.

Do you know how many homes we need to build each year? If all of the empty homes you're talking about were nationalised and given free to new graduates it would cover three months of what needs building.

There is a massive new housing estate being built where we live. The area we live in is crap (to put it politely) and the estate was sold as bringing development into the area.

Except no new roads are being built. The local primary school has a maximum capacity of 210 and is already turning kids in catchment away. The nearest high school is five miles away. No new school is being built in the next decade. There is a Spar, chemist and a bookies. So hardly a vibrant, thriving community for people to become involved in.

What is really happening is that there are more people to pay council tax so the council have got what they wanted. House prices in the old area have shot up because it's a 'desirable area' now apparently. Most people rent because it was that sort of area but most people are being forced out now because landlords got gready. Now they're charging £1k per month for a mouldy old Victorian terrace that cost £500 per month a year ago.

I live in a house that's too big for me. But at the time my choices were limited. I am no longer elligible to rent below a certain amount per month, so I had to rent something pricier and larger than I had before. This how our goverment dealt with the looming housing crisis, trying to force people who earn above a certain income to move.
For a time it worked, but now all houses are a lot more expensive. If I move now I will be moving to something even more expensive, but smaller. I can't afford it anymore so now I am stuck in a house that's not exactly suitable for me.

what @Kitfish said.

I have no problem with new developments. However DH and I shall be staying in our substantial house with its substantial garden. We bought it and have paid high taxes throughout our lives and shall continue to live where we want even if it means three bedrooms each. We renovated it completely 4/5 years ago and will give it a link.of paint here and there over the next 25/30 years but will sustain no more substantial expenditure because it's worth more as a development site than the beautiful house it is - fortunately not listed.

DH and I have discussed this at length and it's more effective to put it in trust now for the dc to do what they like with when the time comes than it is for us to downsize. Meanwhile we shall keep the gardener and cleaner busy. Still working in our 60s; still paying tax.